Do you think large polluters should be punished?

[donnashuggy]

Is this making it too easy for them?

http://www.skynews.com.au/topstories/article.aspx?id=939851&vId=

[izabsmiling]

Do litterbugs get fined ? It's the same concept imo.

[*crikey*mate*]

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@lakeland27 wrote:

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@icyfroth wrote:

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@donnashuggy wrote:

By giving them money? 

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by giving them incentives to find better ways of manufacturing.

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okay , i'll ask . manufacture what  ?

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Toyota Camry's hopefully (for starters)

I read somewhere last night that if they don't get the contract to produce them here in Australia, (they should know by mid year), then Toyota will also be moving off shore (but it was in like 2018, not immidiately, can't remember the exaxct date) The article said that with Holden now gone, that this put all the pressure on Toyota to do the exporting, and if they can't, then they won't. (It was an online news article off my 9MSM page if you want to google)

so if we want to keep Toyota, we better not scare them away, eh? we better make it feasible for them to be able to operate that plant here and not overseas.

[*crikey*mate*]

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@izabsmiling wrote:

Do litterbugs get fined ? It's the same concept imo.

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I agree, but it is unlikel;y that a litterbug will pack up and move overseas because of a fine they fget for littering, and really, what effect will it have if one litterbug leaves? whereas if a big company gets a big fine, they might just decide that they don't want to stay here and play anymore...now that would have a big effect on the country, cos that would not only be a LOT orf jobs lost, but also, potentially a LOT of our export income as well. If they move offshore, then we have to import from whatever country they move to, so pay for somethinmg we once earned money from.

[izabsmiling]

There are cost which I don't want to pay or have my Country and future Australians pay on behalf of mega $ industries .An example;

recently Greg Hunt appoved several massive new extraction processes on the Great Barrier Reef coastline – including the creation of one of the world's biggest coal export terminals at Abbot Point – signals the Coalition government's embrace of the industrialisation of one of the most beautiful and fragile coral ecosystems on Earth.

If the Galilee Basin was a country and Abbot Point its capital city, it would be one of the largest polluting countries in the world

are we that weak that we allow our Country to be destroyed for the sake of money rather than do all we can to find ways to manage the situation ...like we do when we bin our own rubbish (and pay for it's removal) .

[*crikey*mate*]

what would we do without money?

who will employ people if everyone moves offshore?

[izabsmiling]

how much is the Great Barrier Reef worth to you as an Aussie  ?.i know what it is worth to me..it's priceless

though for the 'money focused'...how much in tourist dollars  ?

[*crikey*mate*]

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@izabsmiling wrote:

There are cost which I don't want to pay or have my Country and future Australians pay on behalf of mega $ industries .An example;

recently Greg Hunt appoved several massive new extraction processes on the Great Barrier Reef coastline – including the creation of one of the world's biggest coal export terminals at Abbot Point – signals the Coalition government's embrace of the industrialisation of one of the most beautiful and fragile coral ecosystems on Earth.

If the Galilee Basin was a country and Abbot Point its capital city, it would be one of the largest polluting countries in the world

are we that weak that we allow our Country to be destroyed for the sake of money rather than do all we can to find ways to manage the situation ...like we do when we bin our own rubbish (and pay for it's removal) .

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Coal has been our seciond largest exoport for at least the last 3 years. 2011/2012, it bought in almost $48 BILLION dollars to our economy (our top 25 only earned us $316 Billion... so remove coal from the equation, force them off shore, and what will happen then?

I'm not saying allow them to pollute unaccountably, but rather than force them away, we need to encourage them to stay. isn't that what people expected the gov to do to keep Holden here? (yet our transport services only earned us $2 Billion Dollars and placed at #23 for the last 3 years)

reward them for meeting our targets (it's reduce by 5% by 2020 I think) and keep them here, because if they move offshore, it will lose a lot more than a bit of pollution. Instead, they can use any reward money to find ways to continue to reduce emissions, but also keep producing here...

2011/2012

Iron ore & concentrates = $62,703 Billion

Coal                               = $47,912 Billion

Gold                              = $16,650 Billion

now we only earned $315,774 Billion, what happens when those 3 industries pack up and go elsewhere?

that's over 1/3 of our income from exports per year.

How many years do you believe that Australia will continue to survive if we lose $120 Billion dollars a year?

How weak will that make our country?

at this stage at least, we need those industries tio stay here, we have nothing to replace them with.

BTW, under the last 3 years of Labor, coal export went from $36,477 Billion to $43,853 Billion, to $47,912 Billion, an increase of 9.3% in the last year, and 16.3% for the 5 year trend growth....  That was labor's doing... That pollution lays at their feet, it happened on their watch.

[izabsmiling]

to me it's like pimping out our Country for abuse based on the money of the client.

abuse (pollution) shouldn't be the norm in this day and age.

[lakeland27]

well not really, control is largely a state matter. take WA for example . in respect of state royalties (tax) on exports (which effectively re-directed federal money (mining tax) into state royalties by raising the percentage of royalty above the level where the mining tax cuts out.

''During 2011-12, the Department of Mines and Petroleum collected more than $5.3 billion in royalties (as opposed to taxation of company income) from mineral and petroleum producers in Western Australia (WA).'' http://www.dmp.wa.gov.au/11857.aspx

its a far more complex business than the federal figures show.

[*crikey*mate*]

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@izabsmiling wrote:

how much is the Great Barrier Reef worth to you as an Aussie  ?.i know what it is worth to me..it's priceless

though for the 'money focused'...how much in tourist dollars  ?

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without money there will not be an Australia here to call the Barrier Reef Australian.

Tourism is a constant #5 (behind edcation atm, which is #4)

It only bought in $12,007 last year, 11.928 the year before and 12.007 the year before that.

I think you missed where I said I didn't think that anyone should pollute with impunity, they still need to reduce their emissions in line with our goals, but we need them to do that and stay here as well.

You imply that I am money focused? How do you think we will survive with no money?

Are you reading any of this?

Did you read about Opportunity Cost?

We are a Capitalist Economy FGS!

How do you think your decendents will survive or live if we have no money? You want to reduce them to 3rd World Living Standards, is that it?

How do you think your children will survive if those top #3 decide to move offshore tomorrow? or in the next 5 years and taking their $125 Billion dollars with them?

and if they provide 1/3 of our income, then they also employ 1/3 of our workforce....

If those industries leave, where will they all work?

We wouldn't even be able to afford their welfare so they could sit on the GBR whilst unemployed....

No one is suggesting these industries have free range, they are merely offering a way to make it feasible for them to stay here, whilst meeting our goals.