Do you think that there will be a civil war in Ukraine?

[fourandsixpants]

I see what I see and I hear what I hear on the TV.....but how serious is this all really?

Is it deliberately being peddaled to us that it is a bad state of affairs?

.....or is this really, really serious stuff......comments please.

[amber-eyed-girl]

All Russian leaders should be banned from Western pizza joints, after that Gorbachev ad for a particularly nauseating pizza chain.

The Ukraine has many Russian speakers who are not ethnic Russians.

They are being counted by Putin as pro-Russians, in his assertion that Russians in the Ukraine want to rejoin Russia.

They're not...they are Ukrainians who speak Russian...but geographically, it strengthens the push for "Russian" Ukraine for the Russians. In the Russian mind.

I heard this from a Ukrainian, who lives here, but has family (Russian speaking) still there. Branded pro-Russians. They do not think of themselves as Russian at all, but Ukrainian.

[poddster]

Yes that is the case in a lot of the cases probably the majority. Both sides are saber rattling and as a consequence the inhabitants of the area are the ones who always suffer. The US and EU want to push their agenda and the Russian Federation want to push theirs.

 I have no doubt that the meat in the sandwich will be the first to get devoured.

We have all witnessed it time and time again. The US rides in on it's self proclaimed white charger, plunders and then in time slinks away once there is no more plunder.

Sad but fact

[lloydslights]

I wonder why Russia has recently purchased from our southern states, 35,000 head of Angus for live export to Russia.

"An army marches on its stomach"? (My question)

The report of the sale was mentioned by Landline's Kerry Lonergan a couple of weeks ago.

DEB

[icyfroth]

Yes although Putin has asked separatists for a postponement of a referendum and has pulled back troops from the Ukraine border, so he might be backing off a bit.

Can't see the US backing off though.

[the_great_she_elephant]

 (I don't normally do scrollers, but I thought this might be helpful)

Crimea.

History

Crimea was absorbed into the Russian empire along with most of ethnic Ukrainian territory by Catherine the Great in the 18th century. Russia's Black Sea naval base at Sevastopol was founded soon afterwards.

More than half a million people were killed in the Crimean War of 1853-56 between Russia and the Ottoman Empire, which was backed by Britain and France. The conflict reshaped Europe and paved the way for World War One.

In 1921, the peninsula, then populated mainly by Muslim Tatars, became part of the Soviet Union. The Tatars were deported en masse by Soviet leader Joseph Stalin at the end of World War Two for alleged collaboration with the Nazis.

Why Crimea is part of Ukraine

Crimea only became part of Ukraine when Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev gave the peninsula to his native land in 1954. This hardly mattered until the Soviet Union broke up in 1991 and Crimea ended up in an independent Ukraine. Despite that, nearly 60 percent of its population of 2 million identify themselves as Russians.

Since the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, there have been periodic political tussles between over its status between Moscow and Kiev. 

Population

Around 2 million. Ukraine's 2001 census showed around 58 percent were ethnic Russian, 24 percent ethnic Ukrainian and 12 percent Tatars, who support the new pro-Western government in Kiev.

The black sea fleet

On Crimea's southern shore sits the port city of Sevastopol, home to the Russian Black Sea Fleet and its thousands of naval personnel. Russia kept its half of the Soviet fleet, but was rattled in 2009 when the pro-Western Ukrainian President Viktor Yuschenko warned that it would have to leave the key port by 2017.

Shortly after pro-Russian Viktor Yanukovych was elected president in 2010, he agreed to extend the Russian lease until 2042 in exchange for discounts on Russian gas supplies. Russia fears that Ukraine's new pro-Western government could evict it.

Russia's Black Sea base in Sevastopol gives Moscow access to the Mediterranean. Ukraine's fleet, carved out of the same Soviet fleet as Russia's, is also based there. 

http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.577286

[fourandsixpants]

....thanks for the 'scroll' of info sheheffalump, I was aware of the port situation but this historical account of cultural and placement of people within borders was interesting, Thanks.

......no mention of the rich natural gas or oil resources throughout the region? ...... is an important and major factor in this tussle

[fourandsixpants]

......coal?......uranium.....??

• Most of Ukraine's primary energy consumption is fueled by natural gas (about 40%), coal (about 28%), and nuclear (about 18%). Only a relatively small portion of the country's total energy consumption is accounted for by petroleum and other liquid fuels and renewable energy sources.
• In 2012, Ukraine consumed 319,000 barrels per day (bbl/d) of liquid fuels, but produced only 80,400 bbl/d. The remainder was imported mostly from Russia, with smaller volumes originating in Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan.

A payment issue caused Russia to halt crude oil deliveries to Ukraine's 56,000 bbl/d Odessa refinery in January 2014.

Recent discoveries of shale gas deposits in Ukraine provide the country with a possible means to diversify its natural gas supplies away from Russia.

• In January 2013, Shell agreed to explore an area which the government estimates holds about 4 Tcf of shale natural gas in reserves. Current plans include development of shale gas resources for domestic consumption and exports to Western Europe by 2020.
• http://www.eia.gov/countries/country-data.cfm?fips=up  ....though this information comes from a website calling itself EIA - the US Energy Information Administration

[fourandsixpants]

As to the legal status of Crimea’s offshore waters, Deputy Natural Resources and Ecology Minister Denis Khramov said March 19 that Crimean offshore projects would become subject to Russian law. “If Russian law is extended to Crimea, then law [imposing] requirements on participants in projects on the shelf will be extended,” Khramov said, adding, “Only one thing is important. If this is a part of Russia then it is subject to Russian law.”

According to Russian natural resources law, offshore deposits can only be worked by companies with state ownership of at least 51 percent and five or more years experience working in Russian waters.

http://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Russia-Claims-Ukraines-Black-Sea-Oil-And-Gas-Bounty.html

.....maybe it's over access to and ownership of these resources?......issue hidden behind a faux issue of people borders.

just a thought that the proponents might be more interested in $'s than people.

[the_great_she_elephant]

.....maybe it's over access to and ownership of these resources?......issue hidden behind a faux issue of people borders.

just a thought that the proponents might be more interested in $'s than people.

It's pretty much a given that both Russia and America have ulterior motives, but I'm equally sure that to those activelly involved in the struggle, be they the Ukrainian Government supporters or pro Russian dissidents, their reasons are far more personal and have very little to do with 'faux issues.'

[fourandsixpants]

Its a known fact that Russia is home to the most billionaires and they did not become billionaires by selling odds to punters from ricketty bookies stands as to whether the borders and citizenship papers would be changed and to what and when !! sorry sheheffalump.

The economic situation in Russia is same as everywhere on this globe - controlled by corporations and banksters.