on โ26-12-2014 11:04 AM
โ31-12-2014 09:14 PM - edited โ31-12-2014 09:16 PM
Rabbit: no-one is disputing that salamanders can, over time and using adaption to surroundings, become what is loosely called a new species of salamander (insert elephant, tortoise or whatever for each occurence of 'salamander') - what I am debating and will continue to debate is that a salamander can become a dog,cat, horse, kangaroo or any other animal - it will always be a salamander - no matter how many times it is removed from the main 'herd' of salamanders.
Bob: Salamanders and dog, cat etc etc have common ancetors. We don't expect one to turn into each other. Small changes happens over millions and millions of year that's why it's so hard to imagine. If you look at our early ancestors Australopithecus, even that's 4 million years ago. We can barely imagine 2000 years ago let alone millions.
so, where or what was the common ancestor of salamanders, dogs and cats? Show me some facts / proof and I will believe it - even a fossil of a half salamander -half dog or a half-dog - half-cat will do.
on โ31-12-2014 09:17 PM
@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:Rabbit: no-one is disputing that salamanders can, over time and using adaption to surroundings, become what is loosely called a new species of salamander (insert elephant, tortoise or whatever for each occurence of 'salamander') - what I am debating and will continue to debate is that a salamander can become a dog,cat, horse, kangaroo or any other animal - it will always be a salamander - no matter how many times it is removed from the main 'herd' of salamanders.
Bob: Salamanders and dog, cat etc etc have common ancetors. We don't expect one to turn into each other. Small changes happens over millions and millions of year that's why it's so hard to imagine. If you look at our early ancestors Australopithecus, even that's 4 million years ago. We can barely imagine 2000 years ago let alone millions.
so, where or what was the common ancestor of salamanders, dogs and cats? Show me some facts / proof and I will believe it - even a fossil of a half salamander -half dog or a half-dog - half-cat will do.
Do you at least agree that humans share the same common ancetor as apes? That one is easier to explain because it occurred over a few million years ago.
on โ31-12-2014 09:19 PM
tell me all you like that - ancient wolves have given us all the breeds of dogs that we have - I'll believe that. But they are all still DOGS albeit different species of dogs.
None of them WILL EVER turn into anything except a DOG - maybe different shapes, colours, long tails/short tails, long legs / short legs, long hair/short hair, even bald - BUT STILL DOGS.
โ31-12-2014 09:21 PM - edited โ31-12-2014 09:22 PM
@**bob_on_the_go** wrote:
@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:Rabbit: no-one is disputing that salamanders can, over time and using adaption to surroundings, become what is loosely called a new species of salamander (insert elephant, tortoise or whatever for each occurence of 'salamander') - what I am debating and will continue to debate is that a salamander can become a dog,cat, horse, kangaroo or any other animal - it will always be a salamander - no matter how many times it is removed from the main 'herd' of salamanders.
Bob: Salamanders and dog, cat etc etc have common ancetors. We don't expect one to turn into each other. Small changes happens over millions and millions of year that's why it's so hard to imagine. If you look at our early ancestors Australopithecus, even that's 4 million years ago. We can barely imagine 2000 years ago let alone millions.
so, where or what was the common ancestor of salamanders, dogs and cats? Show me some facts / proof and I will believe it - even a fossil of a half salamander -half dog or a half-dog - half-cat will do.
Do you at least agree that humans share the same common ancetor as apes? That one is easier to explain because it occurred over a few million years ago.
No, but explain away - maybe you'll convince me.
on โ31-12-2014 09:24 PM
@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:
@**bob_on_the_go** wrote:
@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:Rabbit: no-one is disputing that salamanders can, over time and using adaption to surroundings, become what is loosely called a new species of salamander (insert elephant, tortoise or whatever for each occurence of 'salamander') - what I am debating and will continue to debate is that a salamander can become a dog,cat, horse, kangaroo or any other animal - it will always be a salamander - no matter how many times it is removed from the main 'herd' of salamanders.
Bob: Salamanders and dog, cat etc etc have common ancetors. We don't expect one to turn into each other. Small changes happens over millions and millions of year that's why it's so hard to imagine. If you look at our early ancestors Australopithecus, even that's 4 million years ago. We can barely imagine 2000 years ago let alone millions.
so, where or what was the common ancestor of salamanders, dogs and cats? Show me some facts / proof and I will believe it - even a fossil of a half salamander -half dog or a half-dog - half-cat will do.
Do you at least agree that humans share the same common ancetor as apes? That one is easier to explain because it occurred over a few million years ago.
No, but explain away - maybe you'll convince me.
Seriously, you can't see the similarities between us and apes????
Do you accept all dogs despite how different they look are still in the same species????
on โ31-12-2014 09:26 PM
on โ31-12-2014 09:38 PM
Bob: Do you at least agree that humans share the same common ancetor as apes? That one is easier to explain because it occurred over a few million years ago.
Rabbit: No, but explain away - maybe you'll convince me.
Bob: Seriously, you can't see the similarities between us and apes????
Rabbit: Well, let's see... similarities - 2 eyes, nose, mouth, 2 ears, 2 arms, 2 legs - Yes very similar now that you mention it. So, what does that prove? To me it proves that their creator used a similar design. But then lots of animals have most of those atributes - but even evolutionists don't say they are/have common ancestors of man.
Australopithecus.
As a matter of fact, evolutionists invent such "preposterous stories"
that they even ascribe different faces to the same skull. For example, the
three different reconstructed drawings made for the fossil named Australopithecus
robustus (Zinjanthropus), are a famous example of such forgery.
Australopithecus: An Ape Species
The first category, the genus Australopithecus, means "southern ape",
as we have said. It is assumed that these creatures first appeared in Africa
about 4 million years ago, and lived until 1 million years ago. There are a
number of different species among the astralopithecines. Evolutionists assume
that the oldest Australopithecus species is A. Afarensis. After that
comes A. Africanus, and then A. Robustus, which has relatively bigger
bones. As for A. Boisei, some researchers accept it as a different species,
and others as a sub-species of A. Robustus.
All of the Australopithecus species are extinct apes that resemble
the apes of today. Their cranial capacities are the same or smaller than the
chimpanzees of our day. There are projecting parts in their hands and feet
which they used to climb trees, just like today's chimpanzees, and their
feet are built for grasping to hold onto branches. They are short (maximum
130 cm. (51 in.)) and just like today's chimpanzees, male Australopithecus is
larger than the female. Many other characteristics-such as the details in
their skulls, the closeness of their eyes, their sharp molar teeth, their
mandibular structure, their long arms, and their short legs-constitute evidence
that these creatures were no different from today's ape.
However, evolutionists claim that, although australopithecines have
the anatomy of apes, unlike apes, they walked upright like humans.
This claim that australopithecines walked upright is a view that has
been held by paleoanthropologists such as Richard Leakey and Donald C.
Johanson for decades. Yet many scientists who have carried out a great deal
of research on the skeletal structures of australopithecines have proved the
invalidity of that argument. Extensive research done on various Australopithecus
specimens by two world-renowned anatomists from England and
the USA, Lord Solly Zuckerman and Prof. Charles Oxnard, showed that
these creatures did not walk upright in human manner. Having studied the
bones of these fossils for a period of 15 years thanks to grants from the
British government, Lord Zuckerman and his team of five specialists
reached the conclusion that australopithecines were only an ordinary ape
genus and were definitely not bipedal, although Zuckerman is an evolutionist
himself.72 Correspondingly, Charles E. Oxnard, who is another evolutionist
famous for his research on the subject, also likened the skeletal
structure of australopithecines to that of todayโs orang-utans.73
The fact that Australopithecus cannot be considered an ancestor of man
is also accepted by evolutionist sources. The well-known French magazine
Science et Vie made this its cover story of its May 1999 issue. The story dealt
with Lucy, the best-known fossil specimen of Australopithecus afarensis,
under the title "Adieu Lucy," (Goodbye Lucy) and wrote of the need to remove
Australopithecus from the human family tree. The article, based on
the discovery of a new Australopithecus, code number St W573, stated:
A new theory states that the genus Australopithecus is not the root of the
human raceโฆ The results arrived at by the only woman authorized to examine
St W573 are different from the normal theories regarding mankind's ancestors:
this destroys the hominid family tree. Large primates, considered the
ancestors of man, have been removed from the equation of this family treeโฆ
Australopithecus and Homo (human) species do not appear on the same
branch. Man's direct ancestors are still waiting to be discovered.
on โ31-12-2014 09:40 PM
Bob: Seriously, you can't see the similarities between us and apes????
Rabbit: Well, I don't know you Bob, so how can I tell?
on โ31-12-2014 09:42 PM
@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:Bob: Do you at least agree that humans share the same common ancetor as apes? That one is easier to explain because it occurred over a few million years ago.
Rabbit: No, but explain away - maybe you'll convince me.
Bob: Seriously, you can't see the similarities between us and apes????
Rabbit: Well, let's see... similarities - 2 eyes, nose, mouth, 2 ears, 2 arms, 2 legs - Yes very similar now that you mention it. So, what does that prove? To me it proves that their creator used a similar design. But then lots of animals have most of those atributes - but even evolutionists don't say they are/have common ancestors of man.
Australopithecus.As a matter of fact, evolutionists invent such "preposterous stories"
that they even ascribe different faces to the same skull. For example, the
three different reconstructed drawings made for the fossil named Australopithecus
robustus (Zinjanthropus), are a famous example of such forgery.
Australopithecus: An Ape Species
The first category, the genus Australopithecus, means "southern ape",
as we have said. It is assumed that these creatures first appeared in Africa
about 4 million years ago, and lived until 1 million years ago. There are a
number of different species among the astralopithecines. Evolutionists assume
that the oldest Australopithecus species is A. Afarensis. After that
comes A. Africanus, and then A. Robustus, which has relatively bigger
bones. As for A. Boisei, some researchers accept it as a different species,
and others as a sub-species of A. Robustus.
All of the Australopithecus species are extinct apes that resemble
the apes of today. Their cranial capacities are the same or smaller than the
chimpanzees of our day. There are projecting parts in their hands and feet
which they used to climb trees, just like today's chimpanzees, and their
feet are built for grasping to hold onto branches. They are short (maximum
130 cm. (51 in.)) and just like today's chimpanzees, male Australopithecus is
larger than the female. Many other characteristics-such as the details in
their skulls, the closeness of their eyes, their sharp molar teeth, their
mandibular structure, their long arms, and their short legs-constitute evidence
that these creatures were no different from today's ape.
However, evolutionists claim that, although australopithecines have
the anatomy of apes, unlike apes, they walked upright like humans.
This claim that australopithecines walked upright is a view that has
been held by paleoanthropologists such as Richard Leakey and Donald C.
Johanson for decades. Yet many scientists who have carried out a great deal
of research on the skeletal structures of australopithecines have proved the
invalidity of that argument. Extensive research done on various Australopithecus
specimens by two world-renowned anatomists from England and
the USA, Lord Solly Zuckerman and Prof. Charles Oxnard, showed that
these creatures did not walk upright in human manner. Having studied the
bones of these fossils for a period of 15 years thanks to grants from the
British government, Lord Zuckerman and his team of five specialists
reached the conclusion that australopithecines were only an ordinary ape
genus and were definitely not bipedal, although Zuckerman is an evolutionist
himself.72 Correspondingly, Charles E. Oxnard, who is another evolutionist
famous for his research on the subject, also likened the skeletal
structure of australopithecines to that of todayโs orang-utans.73
The fact that Australopithecus cannot be considered an ancestor of man
is also accepted by evolutionist sources. The well-known French magazine
Science et Vie made this its cover story of its May 1999 issue. The story dealt
with Lucy, the best-known fossil specimen of Australopithecus afarensis,
under the title "Adieu Lucy," (Goodbye Lucy) and wrote of the need to remove
Australopithecus from the human family tree. The article, based on
the discovery of a new Australopithecus, code number St W573, stated:
A new theory states that the genus Australopithecus is not the root of the
human raceโฆ The results arrived at by the only woman authorized to examine
St W573 are different from the normal theories regarding mankind's ancestors:
this destroys the hominid family tree. Large primates, considered the
ancestors of man, have been removed from the equation of this family treeโฆ
Australopithecus and Homo (human) species do not appear on the same
branch. Man's direct ancestors are still waiting to be discovered.
I'm not gonna read all that. Are you actually looking at proper science or religious text.
on โ31-12-2014 09:50 PM
OK then ...
I'll highlight it for you.
Extensive research done on various Australopithecus
specimens by two world-renowned anatomists from England and
the USA, Lord Solly Zuckerman and Prof. Charles Oxnard, showed that
these creatures did not walk upright in human manner. Having studied the
bones of these fossils for a period of 15 years thanks to grants from the
British government, Lord Zuckerman and his team of five specialists
reached the conclusion that australopithecines were only an ordinary ape
genus and were definitely not bipedal.