Freedom Of Speech - Rights And Responsibilities

[the_great_she_elephant]

If we, as a society, accept the concept of freedom of speech, should we also accept the concept that there is a line which must not be crossed, and if so, where do we draw that line?

[aps1080]

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@gleee58 wrote:

Is law the way to deal with it?  Tough question. Education and discussion about the need to change our habits maybe not enough in some ways but obviously not enough to change other habits therefore rules or laws are introduced.  

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If the laws or rules are an ass, imposed by others because of ideals, the majority of people will just ignore them.

That's life and which is why Gov'ts need to be careful how, why and when they bring in laws.

[gleee58]

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@aps1080 wrote:

"As for the different targets, I think the Israelis should cop the full dose of satire for editing out the women. They should have the manners to apologise and publish the original."

I would call them very strict Orthodox jews as opposed to Israelis as it occurs the world over.

The type that used to live around the Caulfield area of Melbourne, or did 30 years ago

as they walked past our depot on Sundays in their dress.

Western media "modify" images to suit which I disagree with.

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They had no right to edit the women out of the Protest/Memorial march in Paris.  Netanyahu should apologise to the other leaders and insist the correct images be used.    

[aps1080]

Glee

They have as much right to do that as you do to modify images of Abbott and Hockey to make the man look look man idiot.

It cuts both ways.

That is not to say I agree with it, I don't, it doesn't change reality, only their fantasy world but be stuffed if I am

going to get all uppity over it.

Since you got all uppity over that, why haven't you got all uppity over the other two leaders who "selectively cropped"

the images they tweeted or posted so that it didn't show the Hammas leader and vice versa, the Israeli leader.

Like it's not as know they can control the images all over thw world, the same appplies to the Jews.

[***super_nova***]

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@nevynreally wrote:

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@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

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I didn't ever say it was about what I believed.If you read my posts you will see I have carefully refrained from offering an opinion. I asked Nero if she had seriously considered whst the consequences would be of unregulated free speech, and if she would be happy to live with those consequences. I'll ask you the same question. If you are comfortable with seeing  Der Strumer type anti semitic - or anti any group - cartoons in your daily paper, fine, that's your prerogative, if  you are not, then where and how do you tink a line should be drawn.

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The question is, why do they effect you so much? Who seriously gives a toss about all this? Those with an agenda. The average person doesn't care. They are too busy trying to make ends meet, and still getting to spend time with their family.

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I am sure that is what many people in pre- 2nd WW Germany thought.  And we all know how that ended.  We are at crossroads, and we can either unite against the terrorists, or we can marginalize minorities and turn on each other, and the freedom to insult each other will be last of our concerns. 

[aps1080]

Many in pre WWII Germany supported Hitler.

Not all, but many.

[gleee58]

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@aps1080 wrote:

Glee

They have as much right to do that as you do to modify images of Abbott and Hockey to make the man look look man idiot.

It cuts both ways.

That is not to say I agree with it, I don't, it doesn't change reality, only their fantasy world but be stuffed if I am

going to get all uppity over it.

Since you got all uppity over that, why haven't you got all uppity over the other two leaders who "selectively cropped"

the images they tweeted or posted so that it didn't show the Hammas leader and vice versa, the Israeli leader.

Like it's not as know they can control the images all over thw world, the same appplies to the Jews.

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The same applies.  If they're going to invite themselves to march in France, with these people, they have no rights to tamper with the images when reporting the news.   

Btw, it's not getting all uppity or any other stupid trash talk you want to throw around.  It's called discussion in reply to a question posed by a poster.

[the_great_she_elephant]

The question is, why do they effect you so much? Who seriously gives a toss about all this? Those with an agenda. The average person doesn't care. They are too busy trying to make ends meet, and still getting to spend time with their family.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

( pastorMartin Niemoller (1892–1984)

As members of a democratic society we all have a responsibility - as well as a right - to determine and question how that society should govern itself. Freedom of speech is one of the basic tenets of democracy but it is a double edged sword. it can be a power for good - in defending what we see as right or criticising what we see as wrong in our society, but equally, if misused,  it can be a power for evil when it is employed to villify and persecute any one section of society. 

My only agenda in starting this thread was to encourage people to think carefully about our right to free speech, to consider  possible consequences  of exercising it without restraint and to decide whether our right to say, publicly, whatever we like about any group in our society outweighs our responsibility to refrain from saying anything that may cause harm to  that same group. 

I imagine there will be differing opinions on this, and I have deliberately not sought to dictate to anyone what they ought to think. I have simply put the question out there and asked people to discuss it, because I think it is important and needs to be discussed.

[aps1080]

gse

Good post.

Re Freedom of speech.

One issue I have is not that people have it, but that a vocal minority often have FAR MORE SWAY than they should.

Very evident in Green issues, single issue groups and those opposed on ideological grounds.

[iapetus_rocks]

My only agenda in starting this thread was to encourage people to think carefully about our right to free speech, to consider  possible consequences  of exercising it without restraint and to decide whether our right to say, publicly, whatever we like about any group in our society outweighs our responsibility to refrain from saying anything that may cause harm to  that same group.

Of course, one of the reasons we do speak out freely (and value our right to speak out) is so that we can speak out and to cause harm to the causes of those  who speak in support of insupportable ideologies.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out— , etc, etc

I speak out here against a position which  holds women less than the equals of men.

I speak out here against a position which is homophobic

I speak out here against a position which is supremacist

I speak out here against a position which supports a unity of church and state.

I speak out here so that I can encourage people to see clearly how a certain position appeals to be protected  from insults while at the same time, institutionalising the right to insult others.

I speak out here against a position which would have me killed for speaking my mind.

I support the right of others to speak freely and even to call me a bigot and a racist and all manner of foul things for speaking my beliefs.

 I support their right to speak their mind freely, even if I don't agree with what they say or their reasons for saying it.

Je suis moi.

[fourandsixpants]

 to OP regards:....decide whether our right to say, publicly, whatever we like about any group in our society outweighs our responsibility to refrain from saying anything that may cause harm to  that same group.

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......I will never support the LNP or anyone who represents them and could not give a toss if my words 'hurt' them

          Je ne suis pas stupide