GERMANY incest between siblings

[nero_bolt]

GERMANY’S national ethics council wants to allow incest between siblings

German Ethics Council votes in favour of allowing incest between siblings 

GERMANY’S national ethics council wants to allow incest between siblings, saying the risk of disability in children isn’t enough to warrant the law.

The Independent reports that the council made the recommendation after reviewing the case of Patrick Stuebing, a man who was adopted as a child and met his half-sister when he was 24 and she was 16.

The pair have four children together, however he was jailed for three years in 2008 and his sister, Susan Karolewski, was only allowed to keep one out of their four children.

Two of the children are disabled although it is unclear if that is a result of their parents being related.

Overnight, the German Ethics Council recommended that Section 173 of the German criminal code, which makes incest an offence under which offenders can be jailed for years, be repealed.

The chairman of the council, Christiane Woopen, was among the 14 members voting in favour of repealing the law, while nine people voted for the ban to continue and two abstained.

“The majority of the German Ethics Council is of the opinion that it is not appropriate for a criminal law to preserve a social taboo,” the council said. “In the case of consensual incest among adult siblings, neither the fear of negative consequences for the family, nor the possibility of the birth of children from such incestuous relationships can justify a criminal prohibition.

“The fundamental right of adult siblings to sexual self-determination has more weight in such cases than the abstract protection of the family,” the council added. “Incest between siblings appears to be very rare in Western societies according to the available data but those affected describe how difficult their situation is in light of the threat of punishment.”

Elisabeth Winkelmeier-Becker, a spokeswoman for Angela Merkel’s CDU party, said the abolition of the law against incest would send the wrong message.

“Abolishing criminal punishment against incestuous actions within a family would go completely against protecting the undisturbed development of children,” she told Deutsche Welle.

The Ethics Council’s recommendation only covered incest between siblings and members did not recommend decriminalising sex between parents and children.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/lifestyle/relationships/german-ethics-council-votes-in-favour-of-al...

[azureline**]

I do? no, I don't. I am sorry you see it that way though.

[karliandjacko]

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@kilroy_is_here wrote:
I have no problem discussing any part of what I say but you pull little bits of what. It say and use it to lesson the over all concept which is that every thing is linked

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Who did that? 

I for one totally disagree with the concept that these things are linked in anyway, shape or form. 

taking the prison sentence out of incest between half siblings has no bearing on the age of consent. Just as allowing same sex marriage has no bearing on either of those other issues and won't lead to bestiality or sex with parents becoming legal. 

[***super_nova***]

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@polksaladallie wrote:

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It depends on the degree of consanguinity.  Most of these unions have a small chance of passing on any genetic flaw, but they also have equal chance of passing on dividends, eg, high intelligence, long life etc.

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Yes, 2 highly intelligent related people may have the chance to pass their high intelligence onto the offspring, as do 2 highly intelligent but unrelated people.  But if the couple, or at least one as in this case is mentally disabled, the chance for the kids is not so good. 

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@polksaladallie wrote:

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These unions are discouraged only by myth and ignorance, a visit to a geneticist can allay any doubts, one way or another.

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There are many very good reasons why close unions are not healthy, it is not just the potentially problematic recessive genes (we all carry some - about 1/2 dozen on average); closely related individual produce offspring with compromised  immune system. 

[polksaladallie]

I depends entirely on how closely related.  That's why I said a genetic test is the wisest plan.

[ruloinfovoter]

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@the_hawk* wrote:

its a crazy world

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Got that right.

People proud of the strangest things and unashamed of what they should be, in fact expecting sympathy for some of the most cruel acts a woman can commit and more than once!!!   Men not taking responsibility for their actions, they're in cahoots.

Hard to figure out all of it.  It just doesn't make sense, but then the people who do these things make no sense either.

[***super_nova***]

I think that laws should be kept out of our bedrooms; people should not be sent to prison for consensual sex with another adult.  But, closely related people like siblings or half siblings should not have children. 

[kilroy_is_here]

I'm sorry yes you do , you do in all topics you ignor the over all point and chase down the smallest details in an attempt to derail the bigger picture you can denigh it all you like but you do

[***super_nova***]

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@polksaladallie wrote:

I depends entirely on how closely related.  That's why I said a genetic test is the wisest plan.

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We are talking here about siblings and half siblings. 
Genetic tests are available for some diseases, but you cannot just roll up to geneticist and get tested, you would have to know what you want to be tested for.  So unless there is something in your family that you know about, it is useless.  And it would be very expensive.

The immune system depends on something called Major Histocompatibility Complex, which is responsible for marking all the cells of one's own body (so that they are not destroyed) and for marking any invaders that might be in the organism, like bacteria, viruses etc. that can be destroyed by special cells.  In closely bred individuals MHC variability is reduced, and the system is compromised; the individual can be more susceptible to diseases, or worse he has more chance of acquiring autoimmune diseases. 

[polksaladallie]

I was referring to cousin couplings, as per posts 19, 24, 25, 34, etc.  Not siblings.  The thread took a turn away from the OP.

Genetic tests are not always expensive.  Sometimes they are free.

Most people know something of their family's and extended family's histories.

[katydidthat]

What I read, many years ago, is that incest between siblings was not only wrong because of potential inherited diseases, but because the children had grown up together.  They had shared experiences that WERE related to childhood.  (I'm sure we can all remember some of those).  The concept of two siblings having a relationship skipped a developmental stage - that of growing up and taking a partner with whom they did not share a background.