on โ21-10-2014 08:29 AM
on โ21-10-2014 09:14 PM
@kilroy_is_here wrote:
So much copy and paste
so what?
on โ21-10-2014 09:32 PM
No I mean Whitlam. I was there and watched it happen.
There is a reason why, when Howard sent troops to Iraq, the first thing the then Labor opposition did was โacknowledge the mistakes of past so we donโt repeat them hereโ. That is โthough we opposed our involvement in this war, our opposition is limited to the actions of Government, and is in no way is to be construed as to censure or as a criticism of those service men and women who were required, by law, to implement itโ.
So what was the mistakes of the past being referred to. The conduct of the Party during the Vietnam War.
Labor was opposed to our involvement and Gough was its leader. It was a time when the Labor Party, like most Parties, at the grass roots level, was populated by pot smoking Bogans who, decide to not only target the government but also those who served.
Now Gough, as leader, could have stopped it, but in the minds of many, including the writer, he saw more political mileage in allowing it to continue. So this became the era of targeting military personnel as โbaby killerโ or their families as โthe father, mother, sister, brother wife girl- friend of baby killersโ. It was a time when our military personnel were โencouraged" not to wear uniform in public in their own country because of the possibility of harassment or worse. A time when returning troops often had red paint, blood or excrement thrown at them. Now Gough could have put a stop to it but didnโt. He could have spoken out against this kind of conduct but didnโt. He could have expelled from the Party anyone engaged in this kind go conduct, but didnโt. Instead he turned a bind eye too it, and allowed it continue.
Now if you think Iโm being overly harsh in my assessment, the proof in the pudding - April 1975. At that time we had an forward airbase in Malaysia (Butterworth), which was used as a staging point to fly C130โs to South Vietnam to evacuate personal after the North launched its final invasion of the South. Now at the time, at RAAF Butterworth was C Company 1 RAR, and it was decided prudent by the military commanders on the ground at the time, to send one rifle section with each aircraft as ground security. Gough found out, blew a boiler and the rest is history. The aircraft landed in a hot LZ without so much a loaded 9 mm in the cockpit.
Now Gough is gone there only Jane (Fonda) left. When it comes to Vietnam vets she is the most despised person in America, and if youโre wondering why, when she visited the Hanoi Hilton, one of the prisoners slipped her a note and asked her to give to his family. She handed to a guard and the prisoner was nearly, if not, beaten to death.
on โ21-10-2014 09:46 PM
Now Gough is gone there only Jane (Fonda) left. When it comes to Vietnam vets she is the most despised person in America, and if youโre wondering why, when she visited the Hanoi Hilton, one of the prisoners slipped her a note and asked her to give to his family. She handed to a guard and the prisoner was nearly, if not, beaten to death.
What do you think may have happened to Jane Fonda if the note slipped to her was a 'set up' and she was caught with the note?
on โ21-10-2014 09:55 PM
on โ21-10-2014 09:55 PM
Not one single Vietnam Vet that I have met has had hatred for Whitlam, only regret for the illegal invasion of Vietnam and our involvement in it.
on โ21-10-2014 10:21 PM
She voluntarily went to county with which her country was at war., to give comfort and aid to the enemy.
She was the darling of the US anti-war movement and Giap once said that the work she was doing in the US was worth 3 regiments on the ground here (in Vietnam). Her propaganda value to the North was immeasurable. Therefore if she was caught with the note, nothing would have happened. Anyway why would the north set her up?
As for the prisoners setting her up, she could have destroyed the note. Problem solved. Or she could have said to the prisoner concerned, no, I will not take it. Problem solved.
But she decided to hand it over.
The hate for this woman in the US is palpable, with an entire section of the Vietnam Veterans Association dedicated full time to making her life as miserable as possible. For instance, recently, President Obama announced she was to et some award for her her lifelong service to entertainment, and found out to his political cost, what a big mistake he had just made - because when it comes to Vietnam Vets there are as many Democrats as Republicans
on โ21-10-2014 10:25 PM
on โ21-10-2014 10:36 PM
So how many do you know, 1, 5, 20, a hundred?
In my 20 years of service I know/knew/met well in excess of a thousand, and few if any had a kind word to say about Gough.
In fact I was posted to 4 Field Regiment in Townsville and dragging a gun up Mt Stuart when we got word that heโd been given the boot. That evening, to a man, we went to the boozer and had a few drinks to celebrate.
on โ21-10-2014 10:52 PM
She did apologise for some of her actions and words over there:
It's wiki. It's sourced and is available in other places.
Whitlam made mistakes, as does everyone. He didn't create the anti war movement though, nor did he cause the public reactions to the returning vets. Writers, song writers, magazines, documentaries, music festivals all contributed more than Whitlam to the general anti war sentiment. For the record I was too young to be conscripted by a couple of years. I always wanted to sign up voluntarily, follow in the family footsteps but those family men and reading caused me to change my mind.
Dad's a Korean vet. They were "peace keepers"
All I can say is farewell Mr Whitlam, RIP because from my view of Australia he is behind so many of the best initiatives and policies ever and we can thank him for shaping the modern nation we enjoy today.
In a 1988 interview with Barbara Walters, Fonda expressed regret for some of her comments and actions, stating:
I would like to say something, not just to Vietnam veterans in New England, but to men who were in Vietnam, who I hurt, or whose pain I caused to deepen because of things that I said or did. I was trying to help end the killing and the war, but there were times when I was thoughtless and careless about it and I'm very sorry that I hurt them. And I want to apologize to them and their families. [...] I will go to my grave regretting the photograph of me in an anti-aircraft gun, which looks like I was trying to shoot at American planes. It hurt so many soldiers. It galvanized such hostility. It was the most horrible thing I could possibly have done. It was just thoughtless.[50]
Some critics responded that her apology came at a time when a group of New England Veterans had launched a campaign to disrupt a film project she was working on, leading to the charge that her apology was motivated at least partly by self-interest.[42][51]
In a 60 Minutes interview on March 31, 2005, Fonda reiterated that she had no regrets about her trip to North Vietnam in 1972, with the exception of the anti-aircraft-gun photo. She stated that the incident was a "betrayal" of American forces and of the "country that gave me privilege". Fonda said, "The image of Jane Fonda, Barbarella, Henry Fonda's daughter ... sitting on an enemy aircraft gun was a betrayal ... the largest lapse of judgment that I can even imagine." She later distinguished between regret over the use of her image as propaganda and pride for her anti-war activism: "There are hundreds of American delegations that had met with the POWs. Both sides were using the POWs for propaganda ... It's not something that I will apologize for." Fonda said she had no regrets about the broadcasts she made on Radio Hanoi, something she asked the North Vietnamese to do: "Our government was lying to us and men were dying because of it, and I felt I had to do anything that I could to expose the lies and help end the war."[52]
on โ21-10-2014 11:02 PM
Perhaps you should refer to link below which gives a rather broader view of our involvement before, during and after the Vietnam war. It includes good and bad points from both sides of politics and the public.
wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Australia_during_the_Vietnam_War
It'sdefinitely a fact that the returning soliders were treated shockingly by the usual anti-war groups and d---heads,but I doubt if any PM or goverment could put a stop to it (thatโs apparently democracy). But some of the โtreatmentโ came from unexpected areas:
โIn addition to the negative sentiments towards returned soldiers from some sections of the anti-war movement, some Second World War veterans also held negative views and attitudes toward the Vietnam War veterans. As a result many Australian Vietnam veterans were excluded from joining the Returned Servicemen's League (RSL) during the 1960s and 1970s on the grounds that the Vietnam War veterans did not fight a "real war". The response of the RSL varied across the country, and while some rejected Vietnam veterans, other branches, particularly those in rural areas, were said to be very supportive. Nevertheless, many Vietnam veterans were excluded from marching in ANZAC Day parades during the 1970s because some soldiers of earlier wars saw the Vietnam veterans as unworthy heirs to the ANZAC title and tradition, a view which hurt many Vietnam veterans and resulted in continued resentment towards the RSL.โ