How Anti-Vaxxers Sound to Normal People?

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Re: How Anti-Vaxxers Sound to Normal People?

What she has done for the almighty dollar is just despicable.

 

It reminds me also of Professor Peter Dingle who's wife had a horrible and painful death whilst avoiding conventional medical treatment and continuing to see a "homeopath"

 

 

From Wikipedia (yes, from wikipedia)

 

 

"The Coroner also found that the symptoms had been present from at least as early as October 2001, while she was under the care of a homeopath (whom he described as "not a competent health professional") before finally consulting a doctor in December 2002. In early 2003, her cancer was diagnosed and she was presented with a treatment option which the coroner found would have given her a "good chance of surviving". The coroner also found that her decision to not undergo timely treatment by a competent health professional was "influenced by misinformation and bad science".[4] Dr Dingle continues to be an advocate for sustainable health.[5][6] Dr Dingle is outspoken against the overuse of pharmaceuticals and has published two books on the topic. "The Great Choleserol Deception" and "Medical Myths and Health Lies that are Killing us".

Joono
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Re: How Anti-Vaxxers Sound to Normal People?

When I had cancer I went to a local support group and there I met several people who were using alternative "cures".  One woman, single mum with 2 kids about 8 and 10, stopped half way through her chemo because homeopath told her to.  Some were still receiving medical treatments, but they used for instance mega doses of vitamin C despite evidence that it can reduce efficiency of the drugs.  Some people struggling on old age pension, were paying hundreds of dollars for shark cartilage (?), which meant they did not have enough money for food.  I think I went there twice, but could not bring myself to go back; I really liked the young mum she called me couple of times, and we had lunch, but I could not watch her basically committing suicide, and so I distanced myself from her. 

000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Voltaire: “Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities, Can Make You Commit Atrocities” .
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Re: How Anti-Vaxxers Sound to Normal People?

First I repeat:

Look past the  Internet twaddle and ask yourself:  why do all our professional medical bodies support,  vaccination programmes?,  forget all,  why does the AMA?

 

 

 

" I challenge you to find one study on the effects of aluminium (adult quantities administered to babies)"

That is a nonsensical question.   Phrase it in sensible terms i.e:   dosage levels with body weight/age, also include natural occuring exposure.  What exactly does this mean:  "adult quantities administered to babies" ?

 

As you obviously do not research, or are adverse to accepted clinical studies, here is the latest study I could find apropos "the effects of aluminum"

 

Updated aluminum pharmacokinetics following infant exposures through diet and vaccination.  www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22001122

 

Or  an earlier study: Aluminum toxicokinetics regarding infant diet and vaccinations

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12184359

 

Even:  Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR). 2008. Toxicological profile for Aluminum.

 

"Find one study on the health of the vaccinated vs the unvaccinated, you wont find one of them either because it's "unethical"

 

"Find one study on the health of children using/not using car seats !

 

EVERY vaccination programme is in itself a health study,  with results that are self evident, to those with open minds. The change in rates of disease before and after vaccination programmes are compared, or rates of disease between areas/countries that have/do not have vaccination programmes, all are ongoing studies/comparisons.

 

Smallpox is an acute contagious disease caused by the variola virus, a member of the orthopoxvirus family. It was one of the world's most devastating diseases known to humanity. It was declared eradicated in 1980 following a global immunization campaign led by the World Health Organization.

 

SHW,  the studies you (do not) seek are available, but I find it a waste of my time researching your questions based upon Internet myth and your lack of  clinical knowledge.

 

However,  I will post some more information soon apropos your desire for "one study"  on the effects of aluminium

 

monman12

 

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Re: How Anti-Vaxxers Sound to Normal People?

You cite this study: Updated aluminum pharmacokinetics following infant exposures through diet and vaccination. 

 

Did you actually read any of it? 

 

it is expected that the whole amount of aluminum in the adjuvant  will be absorbed from muscle into the blood following vaccination, albeit at some rate over time.

 

Rather than starting from a zero amount of aluminum in the body, we assumed a baseline level of aluminum in an infant at birth.

 

Following single injections, occasional irritation (dermal) at the site of injection is the only adverse effect that has
been reported in the published literature. 
(Single injections??? apart from Hep b at birth when do babies receive single injections?)

 

Although based on the most recent data available, there are several uncertainties in our analysis LOL of course there are 

First, the published retention function for aluminum (Eq. (1)) is based on results for only one person, albeit data have been acquired from this adult for twelve years.

Second, the results of Flarend et al. [27], from which we obtained our estimate of the rate and extent of absorption of aluminum hydroxide and phosphate following intramuscular injection, are based on data from only two rabbits
per adjuvant tested.

 

"adult quantities administered to babies" ? You know perfectly well what this means. There is more aluminuim administered in this new schedule per dose than what is considered a safe amount for adults...

 

So using the 5 mcg/kg/day criterion from as a minimum amount we know a healthy a 12-pound 2-month-old baby could safely get at least 30 micrograms of aluminum in one day.

 

  • Hib (PedVaxHib brand only) – 225 micrograms per shot.
  • Hepatitis B – 250 micrograms.
  • DTaP – depending on the manufacturer, ranges from 170 to 625 micrograms.
  • Pneumococcus – 125 micrograms.
  • Hepatitis A – 250 micrograms.
  • HPV – 225 micrograms.
  • Pentacel (DTaP, HIB and Polio combo vaccine) – 330 micrograms.
  • Pediarix (DTaP, Hep B and Polio combo vaccine) – 850 micrograms...

These vaccines should at least carry a warning “This product contains aluminum that may be toxic . . . .” like that which is on IV nutritional solutions that contain 25micrograms or more of aluminium.  

 

 

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Re: How Anti-Vaxxers Sound to Normal People?


@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

https://www.autismspeaks.org/science/science-news/no-mmr-autism-link-large-study-vaccinated-vs-unvac...


Yes thanks for posting that shele,  but that doesn't stop the flat eathers from still spreading their lies. It beggars belief that they are still disseminating these untruths, goading young uneducated mothers into risking their childs life and all the other children who come into contact with them., they should be prosecuted for being a public health risk, typhoid Mary had nothing on these fools.

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Re: How Anti-Vaxxers Sound to Normal People?

""adult quantities administered to babies" ? You know perfectly well what this means. There is more aluminuim administered in this new schedule per dose than what is considered a safe amount for adults..."

That is absolute nonsense

 

In assessing a scientific paper , which you have  stated does not exist, one does not trawl through it and extract paragraphs out of context, then in your selected  critique of a widely accepted/quoted study you inject at the end some comments from a known anti vaccination nut site: askdrsears.com,   with no mention of that fact.

Forbes

Dr. Bob Sears once wrote a non-evidence-based book about vaccines,

 

The very least one does when quoting a peer reviewed scientific paper is to provide the conclusion and  I suggest the opening synopsis.   I also suggest when inserting non scientific or never peer reviewed statements to support a biased opinion, it is normal to mention the source, rather than slip it in under  a different accepted title.

 

However, as you have chosen to mention the study, which you asserted did not exist allow me to present a synopsis of it and then its SCIENTIFIC  conclusion:

 

Aluminum is a ubiquitous element that is released naturally into the environment via volcanic activity
and the breakdown of rocks on the earth’s surface. Exposure of the general population to aluminum occurs
primarily through the consumption of food, antacids, and buffered analgesics. Exposure to aluminum in
the general population can also occur through vaccination, since vaccines often contain aluminum salts
(frequently aluminum hydroxide or aluminum phosphate) as adjuvants. Because concerns have been
expressed by the public that aluminum in vaccines may pose a risk to infants, we developed an up-to-date
analysis of the safety of aluminum adjuvants. Keith et al. [1] previously analyzed the pharmacokinetics
of aluminum for infant dietary and vaccine exposures and compared the resulting body burdens to those
based on the minimal risk levels (MRLs) established by the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease
Registry. We updated the analysis of Keith et al. [1] with a current pediatric vaccination schedule [2];
baseline aluminum levels at birth; an aluminum retention function that reflects changing glomerular
filtration rates in infants; an adjustment for the kinetics of aluminum efflux at the site of injection;
contemporaneous MRLs; and the most recent infant body weight data for children 0–60 months of age


[3]. Using these updated parameters we found that the body burden of aluminum from vaccines and
diet throughout an infant’s first year of life is significantly less than the corresponding safe body burden
of aluminum modeled using the regulatory MRL. We conclude that episodic exposures to vaccines that
contain aluminum adjuvant continue to be extremely low risk to infants and that the benefits of using
vaccines containing aluminum adjuvant outweigh any theoretical concerns.

 

Conclusions
Using the previous work of Keith et al. [1] as our starting
point, we re-evaluated aluminum levels in infants using a
number of updated parameters, including a current pediatric vaccination
schedule, baseline aluminum levels at birth, a recent
aluminum retention function from human volunteers that incorporates
glomerular filtration rates in infants, an adjustment for the
kinetics of aluminum efflux at the site of injection, the most recent
MRL for aluminum, and up-to-date infant body weight data for
children 0–60 months of age. Assuming slow release of aluminum
adjuvant from the site of injection into the systemic circulation,
we have demonstrated that aluminum levels in infants are well
below the minimal risk level curves for either median or low-birth
weight babies. We also compared the body burden of aluminum
contributed by vaccines with that contributed by diet. The body
burden of aluminum from vaccines is not more than 2-fold higher
than that received in the diet. While the contribution of vaccines to
an infant’s aluminum body burden can be slightly higher than that
of the dietary contribution in our model, the fact that the primary
pool where the aluminum is residing, as a long-term storage depot,
is likely to be skeletal and not a more sensitive soft organ system is
reassuring [5]. Although aluminum toxicosis is known to occur in
humans, it is found exclusively in individuals suffering from kidney
disease or in those exposed to high levels of aluminum via occupational
inhalation.

However, for infants, our study demonstrates
that there is little risk for aluminum toxicity following immunizations
administered according to ACIP recommendations even

with maximal exposures to aluminum adjuvant. For the general
population of infants, who receive less than the maximal dose, the
risk is even lower.

 

I would point out that the report uses phraseology that is expected in the Scientific Method e.g ideas can never be completely proved or completely disproved

 

As I doubt many will bother reading the above from  a peer reviewed clinical study (sans Dr Bob  additions) I will sum up yet again with:

 

Look past the  Internet twaddle and ask yourself SHW:  why do all  the world's  professional medical bodies support  vaccination programmes?,  forget allwhy even does our AMA?

 

monman12

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Re: How Anti-Vaxxers Sound to Normal People?


@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

https://www.autismspeaks.org/science/science-news/no-mmr-autism-link-large-study-vaccinated-vs-unvac...


Thats looks really positive theoretically.  But I ask you the same question as MM12.  Did you read the article? 

 

Consistent with studies in other populations, we observed no association between MMR vaccination and increased ASD risk among privately insured children. (Is this a fair representaion of the general population? Maybe it is who knows? 

 

the diagnosis of ASD was determined using a claims-based algorithm with a positive predictive value of 87%... This is not what you would call a long term double blind, placebo study though is it?  

 

And after conducting a quick search I've found a couple of snippets of interest; Ami Buikema is a fellow of The national Immunization program...and Craig Newschaffer according to his wiki page, yep he has his own wiki page ...

 

With regard to the causes of autism, Newschaffer stated in an interview that while genetics plays an important role, that "there are going to be causal components that are nonheritable genetics, things that we refer to as environmental causes..."[5] He has also, however, contended that the rise in autism prevalence is to a large extent due only to "increased community awareness, changes to the diagnostic approach among clinicians and shifting public policy,"[6] though he was more ambiguous about this in a 2005 interview, saying that he thought that "there currently is little strong evidence supporting either hypothesis (real risk versus diagnostic bias)...,"[7] a view he had expressed the previous year in an interview with the New York Times, saying that "a large chunk" of the rise in autism was due to broadening of the diagnostic criteria but that "The devil is in how big a chunk is that big chunk."[8] Newschaffer has also contended that there is no link between vaccines and autism, saying, "Those studies just kept piling up that showed no association between MMR or thimerosal exposure and autism."[9]

 

Clearly a bias opinion for someone who is involved in a research study of this kind... Infact I cant help but see the whole study as bias the introduction makes it perfectly clear: 

 

Despite research showing no link between the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine and autism spectrum disorders (ASD), beliefs that the vaccine causes autism persist, leading to lower vaccination levels. Parents who already have a child with ASD may be especially wary of vaccinations. 

 

 

 

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Re: How Anti-Vaxxers Sound to Normal People?


@secondhand-wonderland wrote:

Clearly a bias opinion for someone who is involved in a research study of this kind... Infact I cant help but see the whole study as bias the introduction makes it perfectly clear: 

 

 

 


Do you see the bias in the anti vaccination messengers output?

In fact, there doesn't seem to be a clinical study of any sort which concludes that non vaccination improves health outcomes.

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Re: How Anti-Vaxxers Sound to Normal People?

We had another argument like this re flouride in the drinking water, Monno, remember?

 

Sodium Flouride, a by-product of the aluminium smelting industry which is introduced into our drinking water whether we like it or not.

Which, when applied to the teeth helps prevent decay, but when ingested can cause all sort of undesirable side-effects ranging from cancer to learning difficulties and behavioural abnormalities in children.

 

Now, I learn from reading this thread, that aluminium is an ingredient in the vaccination given to children against whooping cough et al.

Again, the government makes it almost mandatory. For the sake of the children. This is the same, of successive governments,  that have legalised abortions, mind you.

 

And again, Monno, you base your argument on the fact that THE AMA - AUSTRALIAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION OKAYS IT SO CAN'T BE WRONG! The same doctors that perform abortions as per above.

 

Do you really believe everything any Government agency tells you after all the times we've been gypped by "government agencies"?

 

Do you see the irony here?

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