How important is a Tertiary Education?

[the_bob_delusion]

Go.

[***super_nova***]

---

@bright.ton42 wrote:

---

The list is endless.

I am not criticising tertiary education as such but I am critical of the supposition that it is the only way to produce fine, creative and analytical minds, as the above examples prove. 

---

No, the list is not endless, and many of these people lived in time when only small fraction of population had tertiary education.  Do you have figures comparing % of people with and without education?   It is quite possible that their fine, creative and analytical minds could have been developed further and they could have achieved more and better. 

[rabbitearbandicoot]

---

@curmu-curmu wrote:

---

@the_bob_delusion wrote:

---

@chameleon54 wrote:

As I mentioned in a previous post, I am not denigrating university education. I understand it has a vitaly important role for some occupations.

---

Mind telling us what occupations?

---

Gee, Bob. What a thought-provoking question!  LOL.

Not much use building a bridge on a whim and a prayer - and hoping it'll stay up! I guess it would be good for an engineer to have some understanding of stress, load-bearing and weight distribution first - learned thru Uni studies, and when I had a triple bypass some 10 years ago, I'm glad my surgeon had a little understanding of human anatomy before he opened me up!

---

of course there are some occupations that benefit from further education. I don't think anyone is disputing that.

{edit: well, maybe Bob}

[the_bob_delusion]

---

@curmu-curmu wrote:

---

@the_bob_delusion wrote:

---

@chameleon54 wrote:

As I mentioned in a previous post, I am not denigrating university education. I understand it has a vitaly important role for some occupations.

---

Mind telling us what occupations?

---

Gee, Bob. What a thought-provoking question!  LOL.

Not much use building a bridge on a whim and a prayer - and hoping it'll stay up! I guess it would be good for an engineer to have some understanding of stress, load-bearing and weight distribution first - learned thru Uni studies, and when I had a triple bypass some 10 years ago, I'm glad my surgeon had a little understanding of human anatomy before he opened me up!

---

You seem to struggle to think of many. Maybe easier asking what occupations don't require further education? 

[curmu-curmu]

---

@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:

---

---

of course there are some occupations that benefit from further education. I don't think anyone is disputing that.

{edit: well, maybe Bob}

---

The skills I've used all of my life are diplomacy, tact, negotiation and human understanding - (treating others as I wish to be treated). Not sure they can be taught - they need to be learned through experience.

There are certainly places where tertiary ed' is important, if not mandatory. But not for everyone.

Both my boys are doing well career-wise, one is a network administrator for a very large organisation, (with only a tafe certificate behind him), and the other is the national administration officer/sales coordinator for an international medical company - and with only a high school education.

[the_bob_delusion]

---

@curmu-curmu wrote:

---

@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:

---

---

of course there are some occupations that benefit from further education. I don't think anyone is disputing that.

{edit: well, maybe Bob}

---

The skills I've used all of my life are diplomacy, tact, negotiation and human understanding - (treating others as I wish to be treated). Not sure they can be taught - they need to be learned through experience.

There are certainly places where tertiary ed' is important, if not mandatory. But not for everyone.

Both my boys are doing well career-wise, one is a network administrator for a very large organisation, (with only a tafe certificate behind him), and the other is the national administration officer/sales coordinator for an international medical company - and with only a high school education.

---

Oh, so you differentiate between "not for everyone" and not important for some occupation. Are they mutually exclusive?

[curmu-curmu]

Sorry Bob. Not playing your game of semantics and contexts.

[the_great_she_elephant]

---

@poddster wrote:

Tertiary education may qualify a person to be a Matriarch of the eBay Community Spirit Forum if they don't have a Union Card or are not a fully paid up member of the Leftie Party. They can then amaze all the lesser denizens of this venue by putting on display their hard earned vocabulary, critical thinking and analytical skills. Not to mention their grasp of the syntax of grammatical vocalization, correct spelling and the ability to distort any topic to their convoluted viewpoint, proving that they are a class unto themselves and must be revered

---

Not to mention their grasp of the syntax of grammatical vocalization

Vocalisation: the sound made by the vibration of vocal folds modified by the resonance of the vocal tract; http://www.thefreedictionary.com/vocalisation

I think you'd need more than a University degree to do that on Community Spirit. 

[chameleon54]

---

@the_bob_delusion wrote:

---

@chameleon54 wrote:

As I mentioned in a previous post, I am not denigrating university education. I understand it has a vitaly important role for some occupations.

If I was employing some-one to research and develop a new food crop plant, I would consider university training ( theoretical understanding ) essential in a candidate. If I was employing some-one to take the developed plant to the market, promote its use and have it adopted in a commercial sense, I would prefer a non university trained person with common sense and practical life skills. Something that is sadly lacking in university trained people. Both types of skills are equally important and neither would be successful without the other.

Martinis suggestion that people can not develop creative thinking and an enquiring mind without Uni education is a load of closed minded, arrogant  piffle.

---

Mind telling us what occupations?

---

There are a lot of occupations where university education would be essential. They are usually specialised occupations where highly defined knowledge is required. Examples include most areas of research, whether technology, biology, medicinal etc. Many practitioners of the fine arts would benefit greatly from university study. examples include both traditional and modern visual arts, traditional forms of music, performance art  and alternative, modern forms of art such as installations etc. All fields of medicine require the grounding knowledge provided by university. The education sector including the commercial education sector ( training overseas students etc. ) requires tertiary education. Philosophy is another field which would benefit greatly ( but not exclusively ) from tertiary education. The mining industry needs geologists with university education for exploration purposes. As others have mentioned engineering in all forms is a specialised field where university education is essential.

I do agree with Martini that universities assist students to develop an enquiring mind, creative thought processes etc. and as Martini has mentioned this is one of the most important roles of universities. ( along with providing a foundation of specialist vocational knowledge ).  I just think his / her statement that 99 % of people could not develop these skills without tertiary education is elitist, arrogant twaddle which shows a very poor understanding of human intelligence, learning and thought processes.

I also believe the importance of tertiary education in society has been greatly exaggerated to the extent that too many young people are wasting their lives attending courses which will never be of much use to them. I do actually agree with a lot of the comments Martini has made. As Martini has noted, universities teach ways of thinking, they do not provide the skills to actually put this knowledge into practice ( as Martini notes this is the role of TAFES and vocational training. ) Martini is basically saying that universities are NOT there to teach life skills and common sense and the results of this are plain to see in our current political and industry leadership.

[***super_nova***]

---

@curmu-curmu wrote:

---

---

The skills I've used all of my life are diplomacy, tact, negotiation and human understanding - (treating others as I wish to be treated). Not sure they can be taught - they need to be learned through experience.

There are certainly places where tertiary ed' is important, if not mandatory. But not for everyone.

Both my boys are doing well career-wise, one is a network administrator for a very large organisation, (with only a tafe certificate behind him), and the other is the national administration officer/sales coordinator for an international medical company - and with only a high school education.

---

I do not think that getting degree is ever waste of time.  So, you never actually had a job that needed you to have the economics degree.  But is your understanding how economics work hindrance?  World is increasingly complicated; having understanding how such things as science, medicine, or economies work (or do not) is very helpful in being able to form your opinions. 

[bright.ton42]

---

@***super_nova*** wrote:

---

@bright.ton42 wrote:

---

The list is endless.

I am not criticising tertiary education as such but I am critical of the supposition that it is the only way to produce fine, creative and analytical minds, as the above examples prove. 

---

No, the list is not endless, and many of these people lived in time when only small fraction of population had tertiary education.  Do you have figures comparing % of people with and without education?   It is quite possible that their fine, creative and analytical minds could have been developed further and they could have achieved more and better. 

---

Um are you familiar with any of those names on the list which is only a small sample? 

It is quite possible that their fine, creative and analytical minds could have been developed further and they could have achieved more and better. 

Better than ....??

The Presidents of the USA

Writers with intellect considered the top in their

 fields by the literary community

the inventor of Electricity

The Prime Minister of England

the Grand Master of Chess

I can't be bothered going on, i think some research might be enlightening.  

Many or most of these people did indeed live in times when tertiary education was sought and many of these

people were thrown out of high school and/or college as they were considered inept.

I find their achievements really inspiring.