Islamic dress vs the rest of the world

[i-need-a-martini]

How come the burka/niqab is a security risk but the abaya is not? 

How is the burka/niqab oppressive to women but the abaya and the hijab is not?

How is the burka/niqab oppressive to women but the sari is not?

How come the burka/niqab is oppressive to women but the shetel/tishel of jewish women is not?

How come the burka/niqab is oppressive to women but the way Nikki Minaj dressed and behaved in Anaconda is not?

Is a sikhs kacchera and turban oppressive to Indian men? If not why would they wear it?

[azureline**]

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@channys_mum wrote:

Hi martini.

You are saying that muslim women don't have to wear the burka.

So therefore there should be no problem taking it off for id in banks etc.

I bet there are heaps of muslim women on here reading all these threads and wondering why it is all being flogged to death.

Sorry to all of you ladies, it is not about you personally.

From my point of view it's when in Rome so to speak. If everyone else has to have faces open to id, then so should you guys. 

No offence meant, so I hope none taken.

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There is no problem for them taking it off for id purposes, already covered as they can then choose not to enter the bank or other such places that might require it.

Banning the Burqa, by law, is what the issue is. No choice about wearing it anywhere outside the home.

[polksaladallie]

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@polksaladallie wrote:

Or the wedding veil.  That is also a symbol of virginity.  My mother was appalled that I wanted to wear one. 

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Well, she was also appalled that there was a developing baby underneath the dress, and she was appalled at my choice of bridegroom, wrong side of the tracks, (although it wasn't really a choice).  In fact she wished it would all disappear. 

[channys_mum]

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@polksaladallie wrote:

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@channys_mum wrote:

Hi martini.

You are saying that muslim women don't have to wear the burka.

So therefore there should be no problem taking it off for id in banks etc.

I bet there are heaps of muslim women on here reading all these threads and wondering why it is all being flogged to death.

Sorry to all of you ladies, it is not about you personally.

From my point of view it's when in Rome so to speak. If everyone else has to have faces open to id, then so should you guys. 

No offence meant, so I hope none taken.

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Are you talking to women or men?

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Women, sorry I call everyone guys.  I shall rephrase

So should you ladies.

[Anonymous]

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@i-need-a-martini wrote:

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@punch*drunk wrote:

And as I keep saying, we make the assumption that muslim women have no choice. If we put those countries aside where women need to cover up by law like in Australia, women DO have a personal choice.

Actually the assumption is quite clearly "some" women have no choice.

Do you know for a fact that everyone in Australia that dons a burqa is doing it of their own free will....or are you just assuming?

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No I don't. And I have often stated in my argument that perhaps there is a small minority (of the small minority) that may be told to wear it by the husbands. But I don't actually know any muslim women that wear a burka to ask. I suspect not one other poster knows a burka wearing muslim either.

That's the reason I make the statement that it is an ASSUMPTION that we are making that muslim women are oppressed from a western point of view.

However I do live in a muslim area and do have a muslim circle of friends who wear full body covering with their faces exposed. Not just a Hijab. To call any one of these women oppressed is laughable.

But the fact is that whilst there are countries where there are laws that women MUST wear burkas, we don't have those laws in this country. So women do have the freedom in Australia to walk away from the clothing if they feel strongly about it.

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i will make a reference to a  video

posted on the burka thread where 2 muslim

women were debating this issue.

one of them said that it was a fact that there

are women who wear the burka by choice

and there are those who are forced to -

if banning the burka meant that even a very

small number of women would be freed

from that oppression then that is more

important than not banning it because it offends

those who have a choice.

I suspect not one other poster knows a burka wearing muslim either.

i suspect you would be right

[Anonymous]

Islamic dress vs the rest of the world

which other religions require women

to be completely covered while in public

(or private unless in company of close

male relatives) ?

as far as i know there is no comparison -

is there?

[Anonymous]

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@i-need-a-martini wrote:

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@punch*drunk wrote:

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@i-need-a-martini wrote:

Is it only the burka/niqab that is oppressive?

The hijab and the sari are meant to cover the face when talking to men but most women wear them loose. In theory they should pick them up when they have to cover their face hence the reason why they wear them draped on their shoulder within easy reach.

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So does that mean none of them are face covering except the niqab and burqa?

Obviously any loose flowing scarf type garemnt can be held up to the face, but surely you can see a difference?

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This thread was not specifically about defending the burka.

Prior to the burka/Parliament question, there had been other debates on here regarding the opporession of muslims womens dress. Many think the hijab is oppressive. And if we use the same argument that women don't have a choice to wear/or not the hijab (or the abaya) why don't we say yhe same about saris.

And the irony is that westerners generally regard saris as beautiful but abayas as oppressive.

My thread is to query why we regard some garments as oppressive but not others.

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i dont recall ever seeing it here.

the main objection has always been

to burka/niqab.

i have seen ppl posting pics of nuns

when the topic was burka/niqab.

perhaps some ppl mistakenly refer

to burkas/niqabs as hijabs or think

they are the same.

[the_great_she_elephant]

if banning the burka meant that even a very

small number of women would be freed

from that oppression then that is more

important than not banning it because it offends

Just like all those tribal women who were saved from immorality and the fires of hell when the missionaries forced them to cover their breasts and wear "repsectable" clothing.

[Anonymous]

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@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

if banning the burka meant that even a very

small number of women would be freed

from that oppression then that is more

important than not banning it because it offends

Just like all those tribal women who were saved from immorality and the fires of hell when the missionaries forced them to cover their breasts and wear "repsectable" clothing.

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no - i dont believe that is what

she said.

[i-need-a-martini]

Sorry - haven't been around since this thread was removed and then re-instated and don't have time now to respond to any questions specifically addressed to me.

But I would like to take the thread back to the questions asked in the OP. And I would like to remove the reference to the current issue regarding the burka.

This thread was not started as a Part 2 to the "Ban the Burka" thread although the argument seems to have rolled over across here. That was not my intention. It was started as a genuine query about why we regard certain garments oppressive and others not. The questions were born out of my own curiosity.

The sari is a good example that I keep bringing up. Why do people regard the abaya oppressive on  muslim women and assume her religion/husband forces her to cover up. But we don't hold the same attitude towards saris?

Or why was is the hijab seen as oppressive but a sikhs turban is not?

[i-need-a-martini]

And i want to  quickly note, I have been on these boards for a long time and have seen discussion on here (as there has been in and still is the general media) about the oppression of women "forced" to wear hijabs. This has been ecliped greatly over the years with a new/but same question about the niqab/burka.

I think we have become more accepting about the hijab and perhaps western society generally see it as a 'lesser evil' now that the burka is the new devil or something? But for a while it was the symbol for everything that was 'bad' about islam. Much as the burka seems to have become the symbol associated with terrorism in 2014.