Islamic dress vs the rest of the world

[i-need-a-martini]

How come the burka/niqab is a security risk but the abaya is not? 

How is the burka/niqab oppressive to women but the abaya and the hijab is not?

How is the burka/niqab oppressive to women but the sari is not?

How come the burka/niqab is oppressive to women but the shetel/tishel of jewish women is not?

How come the burka/niqab is oppressive to women but the way Nikki Minaj dressed and behaved in Anaconda is not?

Is a sikhs kacchera and turban oppressive to Indian men? If not why would they wear it?

[iapetus_rocks]

Martini; I don't believe that many Australians think that the abaya is repressive and I bet that almost no one in Australia considers the sari to be oppressive.

As for the hijab; well, I continue to see women wearing it who also wear very heavy face make-up and tight, figure-revealing clothing.

These above dress-forms do not conceal the face and the identity of those who wear them.

Face-concealment plus figure-concealing or body-concealing clothing is a totally different thing. These are dress forms which are deliberately designed to limit a woman's ability to interact fully with those she meets in society.

And that is oppressive, whether they be worn under duress or even if "freely chosen".

The "freely chosen" is in inverted commas because it is crucial to understand and appreciate the ideas which inform this supposed "free choice".

The niqab and the burqa do conceal the face. And what is more, they are badges of a particular religion and of a particular religio-political agenda.

I think that people really need to read and to discuss with Muslims what these ideas are which inform the choice to dress like this, and then to go on to a consideration of what the word freedom really means.

What is so confronting is the concealment of the face and the facial expressions.

While we are asked to consider and to understand the reasons why face-concealing dress is worn by some people, it is also important to consider and to understand the cultural importance that we in the West place on the non-concealment of the face and the facial expressions.

This is our culture and our cultural expression. But Islam does not admit of any respect for that. A one way street only leads in one direction.

(as has been established, there is no religious instruction in the Koran for women to conceal their face and therefore their  facial expressions).

The claimed religious reasons for wearing face-concealing dress are bogus.

Facial expression is a large part of human communications. It is important. It is important to us, the majority culture; our culture here in Australia. But there exists not one skerrick of reciprocal respect for our culture or our religions (or lack of them) coming from Islam.

It cannot be so. It is written.

I am becoming tired of this discussion now and I think I have said almost all of what I have to say on this subject and it is tiresome to have to be so repetitious.

Either I am not making my points as clearly as I should, or there exists a sort of intellectual deficiency on the part of those who read my arguments but who still miss the points I try to make.

See if you understand this one last point.

Peace be with you, inshallah.

[azureline**]

I don't find any of those forms of dress oppressive. I don't wear them and it's not my place to tell women who do, that they are oppressed.

[i-need-a-martini]

We have short memories in this country.

It was only a few years ago where there was debate and argument about the hijab being banned in a girls youth soccer tournament after the FIFA ban affected girls touring Australia.

And it was less than 10 years ago that Bronwyn Bishop asked for the hijab to be banned in public school because it was oppressive.

And let's not forget that Brendan Nelson told Australia that anyone who wants to wear the hijab should get out of the country.

And finally the French - who has been held up as a righteous example on these boards for their stance towards muslim dress. But it is the hijab that they have banned in public schools. Why are we congratulating them from banning the hijab?

Pre-burka the hijab was the garment we associated with all things that were bad about Islam.

And you have contradicted yourself in regards to the abaya. The abaya is a figure concealing garment. It is a neck to toe covering. So is this oppressive to women or not?

And in terms of face covering for religious reasons. I think you misunderstand what it all is and what it means. Burkas and niqabs are cultural garments. That they are worn by a culture that follow islam is incidental. So of course nothing in the Koran tells them to cover their faces. The Koran (as does the Bible) only tells women and men to dress modestly.

I will go back to my earlier point - you place too much emphasis on the Koran as your point of refererence to all things Islamic.You need a broader cultural understanding to see not only how extremists work but also to understand something as basic as why muslim women wear what they do.

A good example is the revival of the headscarf in Egypt. This was predominantly borne out of the womens movement in Egypt. Egypt stopped wearing what we regard as 'muslim dress' early last century. The revival was sparked by conservatism amongst younger women.

Or how about in Iran where the chador and veil was worn long before Islam ever arrived in that country. There was no Koran in that country telling them to cover up.

You accuse others of intellectual deficiencies yet it appears you haven't understood too much beyond a certain small sphere of reading.

[punch*drunk]

So the OP wasnt asked because you are interested in others opinions, its more so you can tell people you are right and they are wrong.......again.

[azureline**]

I don't see where that is what she is doing? I hadn't thought about the relationship of other cultures dress to Muslim dress.

[i-need-a-martini]

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@punch*drunk wrote:

So the OP wasnt asked because you are interested in others opinions, its more so you can tell people you are right and they are wrong.......again.

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Where have I said anyones opinion was wrong?

Yes I think the staements made about the hijab are incorrect. Pre-Burka it WAS the symbol for all that was hated about Muslims. I gave some quick examples for those that have forgotten.

And yet today, the hijab is seen as a fairly innocuous garment by most Australians.

I also think that the abaya is seen in the same context as the burka for most Australians. The post I was responding to was contradictory - on the one hand they say the abaya is not oppressive but in the next sentence talk about figure concealing being in the same category as coverings that hide the face. A bit confusing. Which is it?

[Anonymous]

And finally the French - who has been held up as a righteous example on these boards for their stance towards muslim dress. But it is the hijab that they have banned in public schools. Why are we congratulating them from banning the hijab?

the comments i have read were more

to do with france not excluding the hijab

from being banned as conspicuous religious

symbols in public schools.

not sure why the ban of conspicuous religious

symbols is considered by some as targeting

 muslim head scarves.

where there any protests by other religious

groups?

[Anonymous]

The sari is a good example that I keep bringing up. Why do people regard the abaya oppressive on  muslim women and assume her religion/husband forces her to cover up. But we don't hold the same attitude towards saris?

Abaya

do you know how many ways there

are to wear the modern sari?

here is just one example:

Mermaid Sari

A very sexy way to wrap your sari, this style, often seen on brides, will accentuate your body shape and your curves. The downside: Just be sure you plan on walking with small steps because while this style looks fabulous it will limit your range of motion.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/life-style/fashion/style-guide/Drape-your-sari-with-a-twist/artic...

Mermaid Sari

[karliandjacko]

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@icyfroth wrote:

No? Because you don't have to? Choose not to? We've moved on?

Time Australiam muslim women did too.

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Why do we have to bully them into change though? What's wrong with dialogue instead of demonising women who are most likely recent arrivals that don't feel confident and comfortable in their new environment?

This argument is just an excuse to verbally attack muslim women, from what I've seen.

[the_great_she_elephant]

What makes you think abayas only come in black?