Mechanical Question?

[rabbitearbandicoot]

my car VZ Commodore has started with a  click-click-click when I try to start it.... it does it 2 or 3 times ... eventually starts after I bless it a few times  .... but I'm worried that eventually it won't ..... so, starter motor? solenoid? 

This had to happen when every mechanic for miles around is on 2-weeks holiday.

[this-one-time-at-bandcamp]

it is the alternator, hey view

Really?  Odd that a fresh battery would display the same symptoms immediately after installation.........eh?

[joz*garage]

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@serendipityricho wrote:

Hi Joe--im going with Viewmonts--end of the battery cable on the starter motor.

Rabbit--when you get the car sorted out-let us know the outcome......................Richo.

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yeah, we wanna know who gots de brains

[joz*garage]

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@this-one-time-at-bandcamp wrote:

it is the alternator, hey view

Really?  Odd that a fresh battery would display the same symptoms immediately after installation.........eh?

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rabbit wrote: "

I bought a new one and it seemed to make the difference - until the next day when the click business started again ...."

can't a new battery be drained of some of it's charge after a day?

[this-one-time-at-bandcamp]

The only time a battery suffers a major draw  is during the start.........once the vehicle is running, minimal draw occurs unless the lights are on.  We used to test alternators by jump-starting a car, then disconnecting a battery cable and turning the lights on.  A bad alternator or voltage regulator would present itself by the car shutting off.

I once had tourists in a Toyota come in late in the afternood with a bad alternator, in nasty weather.  Once I showed them the problem, they wanted me to charge the battery and let them continue north, over snowy passes, at night.  I refused to do so, and suggested they find someone else to "Darwinize" them.  I received a complaint from the retail representative, who, after I explained  the circumstances, agreed whole-heartedly with me.  That was a lawsuit waiting to happen.

[ten*teeny*tiny*toes]

Had the same thing with our old commodore just recently - starter motor.

Did the click click a few times but usually got it going after a few goes. The battery was new in June so wasn't thinking that way.

It happened while a friend was here and he got it going by moving all the way through the gears and then back into Park. So the next umpteen times it wouldnt start that's what I'd do. I'd go up and down through the gears, seemed to work for a while, a bit like your blessing it a few times, I guess 

It was well overdue for a service so we spent a heap and they replaced some sensor (and seals and god knows what) as it was like it wasn't registering it was in park. The very next day - same problem - took it back - sat in the yard all day and started perfectly each time. 

Finally. It absolutely would not start and they had to come to us. Diagnosis - New starter motor $300-$400 and not a problem since.

[viewmont1071]

It could possibly be the starter motor. Bandcamp is right in that tests and checks that are impossible to do through the puter screen need to be performed for correct dignosis.

But I think they would also agree that removing a battery terminal from a car with an ecu while running will cause voltage spikes

that will most likely fry the gizmos that make the sucker go whirr bang bang. IMO post late 80's vehicles  it is a never ever

I mentioned the starter motor terminal issues ie loose, corroded or burnt as it is a known common fault (amongst mechanics

mainly) for vs to vz ecotoec engines and it is (generally) intermittent initially and can vary from good to very very bad until total

failure occurs due to arcing.

The fact is that replacement (or testing for that matter) of the starter motor requires removal.

Removal of the starter motor requires that the starter motor terminal(s) need to be unbolted.

An astute mechanic rules out faulty electrical connections, positive during diagnosis/removal and negative (ie body to block earth

and battery to body earth) preremoval so that results can be checked.

After removal the starter motor needs to be bench tested to confirm the fault.

If the starter tests good then the wires that connect to the starter need to come under much closer scrutiny for fatigue.

So... to my point.... If the torque of the starter motor electrical connecting nut is not "checked ( and noted) upon removal by the

mechanic (ie try and tighten it first) and the starter motor is not bench tested upon removal but just swapped over with a new one

then the real fault is missed if the nut was loose, as it could be expected that most mechanics are skilled enough to correctly

retension the nut on fitment and thereby "fixing" or negating the real fault.

So I am not saying that tttt experience is not correct.... however I am saying that an amount of Dunnydore starter motors are

incorrectly replaced (either inadvertantly or deliberately).

Joz, the same models have the same type of issue with the B+ terminal. over time the wire pretty well melts.

Having said all that... starter motors and alternators still wear out (they generally though do not repair themselves nor get better or worse)

... correct diagnosis through pragmatic investigation

in the Ops case If the s/m  terminal connection is loose then it could have been wriggled during battery replacement causing better connection making he problem seem a little better.

Road bumps have returned it to its "normal" position and the problem persists... 

give it a wiggle while clicking, check for temp of the wire, watch for sparks arouns the connector  when it fires.

[dwilke33]

So many mechanics here.  Wish I were your friend here in real life and you could have helped me in the past and future.

[viewmont1071]

edit: Joz, the same models have the same type of issue with the B+ terminal on the alternator. Over time the wire pretty well melts (caused by a loose/poor connection ) resulting in the incorrect faulty alternator diagnosis.

A trip back to the same mechanic/auto electrician sometimes results in replacement of said wire  and connections without disclosing

the "fix".... . 

[this-one-time-at-bandcamp]

Road bumps have returned it to its "normal" position and the problem persists... 

Funny you should mention that..........I had a '66 Ford LTD come in once with an intermittent engine shut down.  I checked every thing, and eventually I got to the firewall-to-engine ground strap.  The bolt that secured it to the right head (at the very back) was loose, and when the car went over a bump or railroad tracks, it would become "unearthed"............The negative cable from the battery was bolted first to the chassis, then to the front of the block.  It was the latter part that had become so rotten that it simply didn't function (perhaps years ago), and the car depended on the loose strap at the back to complete the electrical circuit.

But I think they would also agree that removing a battery terminal from a car with an ecu while running will cause voltage spikes

that will most likely fry the gizmos that make the sucker go whirr bang bang. IMO post late 80's vehicles  it is a never ever

My '84 Isuzu ute worked fine afterwards,  and by that time we had better diagnostic capabilities.

[the*scarlet*pimpernel]

whooaaa, all this mctechnical mechanical talk is getting me hot and sweaty 

Hi Monty, nice to see you