Moving into COVID-Normal...? Preparing for a post-COVID world, or "Living with COVID-19"

We're not there yet. We're not yet at a stage where we can truly consider the world to have moved to COVID-normal. But we can see it on the horizon, and we can start to live in a way that is locally "living with COVID-19", barring any setbacks with more virulent or more infectious strains of SARS-CoV-2.

 

This is due to the vaccines that have been developed, approved, and administered in Australia and in many parts of the world.

 

If you read the thread State by State, Australia vs Elsewhere, in the age of COVID-19 and beyond, particularly in reference to the Australian CHO Prof. Paul Kelly's opinion piece, that article in the post to which I've linked raises some interesting points.

 

It brings to the forefront of my mind a perception that the deaths and adverse outcomes he mentions are not acceptable. In the same way, I do not consider any preventable deaths as acceptable. It may be a pragmatic reality that such deaths and adverse outcomes occur; however, there are simple things we can do to limit those outcomes.

 

I have been advocating for certain hygiene measures and air purification measures for some time. That has to step up now. Some of these measures cost absolutely nothing; some will require some financial outlay. But what is the cost of human life?

 

  • We must keep up the hand hygiene, and pass on those lessons to the next generation and the generation beyond that. COST: negligible. (Soap and water; ~70% alcohol-containing hand sanitiser; alcohol wipes for doors, rails, high touch areas, to prevent transmission by fomites)
  • It would be a good idea always to have a P2/N95 mask with us in the event of having respiratory symptoms, or being in the presence of anyone with such symptoms. COST: negligible for close-fitting cloth masks  washed daily. Higher cost if using reusable P2/N95 masks, and higher still if using single-use P2/N95 masks. Highest cost if test-fitted. (For immunocompromised individuals or those in close contact with such individuals or working in medical/health care settings, such a cost is not only affordable, but justified.)
  • If we wear a mask (so, presumably in a risky setting) and in the course of doing so TOUCH OUR MASK, such as adjusting it, or even fleetingly coming into contact with the outside of the mask, we must as soon as possible sanitise our hands. Do not touch your eyes or your ear or anyone else or another surface before sanitising your hands. COST: nothing.
  • There are crowded or high density settings that are unnecessary and can be avoided; maintain social distancing if possible and if appropriate. In social friendly settings, once we can relax and get back to hugging people and shaking hands, there will always be a risk but that is part of the price of being social beings and enjoying human relationships. COST: nothing.
  • If we experience symptoms of illness, we must not have the attitude of soldiering on. We must STAY HOME, and get tested for COVID-19 if our symptoms are associated with those of COVID-19. COST: unknown. This may result in more sick days, but these sorts of things are the reason for us having sick days - not to "chuck a sickie" and hoof off to the cricket or the footie.
  • If we are unwell, we MUST NOT VISIT HOSPITALS or AGED CARE or ANY INDIVIDUAL WHO IS VULNERABLE TO INFECTION. This includes stomach upsets and diarrhoea. Hospitals have had signs up warning visitors of precisely this for many years, but visitors persistently disregard this or talk themselves out of caring. That can no longer happen. We must stay away if we have or have recently had those symptoms, or we run the risk of bringing severe sickness or worse to the people we love most. COST: nothing.
  • If you have visitors to your home, open up your windows. This will increase ventilation and lower the risk of transmission of airborne viruses. COST: nothing.
  • Get a good HEPA air purifier if this is affordable within your budget. COST: variable, but  you can certainly get a good quality air purifier for $500 or perhaps a little more. There are mobile air purifiers available so that you can move it to where you are, thus maximising its effectiveness. Make sure it is big enough for the area, otherwise it will not provide the required purification effectiveness.
  • Now that rapid antigen tests are available, they should be used in appropriate settings. They are not a substitute for a nasopharyngeal swab, but they have their uses.

We should attempt to make Australia a nation of healthy individuals, but this is an immense task. Being healthy and fit reduces risk factors, so it does make sense for us to optimise our state of fitness. COST: I could say "nothing", but the truth is that this is a magic health outcome that GPs and nutritionists have been trying to achieve for a very long time. Ah well, that's a discussion for another day.

 

All of these measures can only help us in this Delta-variant world if the great majority are vaccinated.

 

 

 

And... of course... we have a responsibility to make those vaccines available to each nation and each individual. If we don't help the poor, not only is that our moral shame but it is an ongoing risk to every single one of us.

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Moving into COVID-Normal...? Preparing for a post-COVID world, or "Living with COVID-19"


@chameleon54 wrote:

@domino-710 wrote:

What - no mention of an increase in valuation of your ' remote ' farm. 


I dont visit the boards much these days ( other fish to fry ) but just noticed this little jibe. The answer is the remote farm has doubled in value in the last 18 months ( thanks for your interest ) with much of the increase coming in recent months.

 

The reason I bothered replying at all is the reason behind the jump is interesting. It is not driven by people leaving the cities in search of a better life as is the case with the near city farm. It is being driven by  COVID disruptions to global transport and COVID disruptions to farm inputs such as fertilisers and chemicals etc, all of which is leading to global food production disruptions and possible shortages. Prices for many farm commodities are at record levels ( if you can actually grow it with disrupted farm inputs ). 

 

The point is the COVID story has still got a long way to play out with the potential economic effects of government money printing, government spending on COVID supports, small business collapses, inflation resulting in rising interest rates and general shortages across the board lasting long after the virus recedes.

 

And yes I,m putting my money where my mouth is. The " FOR SALE " signs are about to go up on the near city farm after receiving an unsolicited seven figure + offer to buy from an interstate business person. Looking at current real estate markets, I dont think many in the general public have quite grasped the potential economic risks on the horizon.

 

" The money or the box ? " I,m taking the money on the near city farm,  clearing my debts, banking the rest and sitting back watching the action from the boundry. I suspect the potential chaos could throw up some opportunities for anyone with a bundle of cash to spend a bit later on.


Not having any issues here. I still pay $67 for a litre of Q-Drench.

 

They don't. They see the price and the interest rates right now, and then scream murder when there is a rate rise (interest rates went up 0.25%, we'll lose everything). They don't get the concept of an interest rate rise.

 

Why would you put up a for sale time, when it sounds like you have a buyer? Makes me think you are full of it.

 

I recently sold my hobby farm (250 acres). I got 2.5 million for it. I'd have been happy to get 750K!

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Moving into COVID-Normal...? Preparing for a post-COVID world, or "Living with COVID-19"

I should clarify the high-touch surface cleaning in the high-touch areas that I mentioned in my OP. While I do as much of my work as possible with Zoom or other online or remote means, part of what I do involves clients coming to my office/client-area-at-home. Among the precautions I take is to clean surfaces they’ve touched with alcohol wipes once they’ve left.

 

Given the vulnerability of a particular family member, it’s an absolutely necessary precaution.

 


We certainly live in “interesting times”…

 

 

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Moving into COVID-Normal...? Preparing for a post-COVID world, or "Living with COVID-19"


@*sons_and_daughters* wrote:

My husband had surgery 5.5 years ago to remove his voice box, that now makes him vulnerable and will more than likely die if he gets it, even being vaccinated.

 

Between winter 2016 and 2019, he would go to hospital in winter, with a stack of different respiratory illness, between 5 and 8 times each winter, usually closer to 8. He would usually spend 1-2 weeks in hospital each time. 

 

Since the Covid hit, we started using the sanitisers at the entrances to shops. We started using the trolley wipes. When we got back in the car, we'd sanitise. After packing the groceries, or whatever, away, we'd hand wash with soap and water. The results of this is, he's not been to hospital one single time since October 2019. Yes, he wears a face mask when out, but it's pointless, because he doesn't breathe through his nose and mouth.

 

So, even when this virus is done and dusted, we'll still continue those practices, because for us, it worked.

----------------------

That was a very interesting read. These must have been very worrying times for you over the last 2 years but let's hope omicron or one of its variants settles down as a much less deadly infction.

 

What you were saying about your husband having fewer respiratory illnesses is something I have been reading  of in a  few internet reports. Not about him specifically of course but about people in general.

 

I have a couple of friends who believed or at least did at one stage, that most of the covid cases reported were not covid but simply flu or other respiratory illnesses as otherwise 'how could I explain the suspicious drop in flu cases'.

To me, I think it is a no brainer. It's because people have been wearing masks, washing their hands a lot more often, using sanitiser etc, and tending to stay away out of the shops if they are coughing and spluttering a lot. Too embarrassed to be in public or at work if obviously ill.

Apparently there are a couple of less common flu types that I read may even have been wiped out, if we are lucky.

 

So obviously, some of the precautions we have all been taking are working, against covid and other illnesses as well. Although with omicron, not so much. I suspect it is more air born.


 

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Moving into COVID-Normal...? Preparing for a post-COVID world, or "Living with COVID-19"


@chameleon54 wrote:
. Prices for many farm commodities are at record levels ( if you can actually grow it with disrupted farm inputs ). 

 

The point is the COVID story has still got a long way to play out with the potential economic effects of government money printing, government spending on COVID supports, small business collapses, inflation resulting in rising interest rates and general shortages across the board lasting long after the virus recedes.

 

 

" The money or the box ? " I,m taking the money on the near city farm,  clearing my debts, banking the rest and sitting back watching the action from the boundry. I suspect the potential chaos could throw up some opportunities for anyone with a bundle of cash to spend a bit later on.

-------------------------

This was another post I found very interesting. I think if this pandemic has shown us anything, it should be how vulnerable we are because we have let so many of our own industries die and we rely so heavily on overseas goods.

Food is one of the last areas where we have any production and now we are seeing real disruptions to supply.

 

You are right in that I don't think everyone appreciates just how low interest rates are at present. Maybe you have to be older and have a memory of times when 10% was a low interest rate. Young people think that time was too long ago to be relevant to the modern world but I suspect that, sure as eggs, interest rates won't stay at the current low forever and some people will be in a world of pain, with forced sales etc

 

When I was working, our Prin though always used to say-in any hard times there are always corresponding opportunities, you just have to look out for them and be ready. And yes, anyone with good investments and no loans will be in a good place.


 

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Moving into COVID-Normal...? Preparing for a post-COVID world, or "Living with COVID-19"

Why would you put up a for sale time, when it sounds like you have a buyer? Makes me think you are full of it.

 

Would you take the very first unsolicited offer you received for a property in this crazy market ? Yes I would be happy to accept the offer made and it is the reason I decided to sell, but I have put the sale in the hands of one of the large agencies who have set the reserve at $ 250k higher than the initial offer price and expect to get more on top. 

 

Discounting the 110% rise in property values in one year after WW2 ( There was a technical reason why that is not valid ), we are in the second highest price rise phase in property values in Australia's history. It is all being driven by Governments worldwide printing money ( Inflationary ) to artificially lower interest rates and flood the economy with money, stimulating spending which is going into shares and property.

 

Its not real and there is going to be a lasting price to pay long after COVID recedes. The thread theme is Living in a post Covid world. The risk is that once the virus recedes we will be left with mountains of debt, ( Both public and private ) rampant inflation ( caused by money printing and COVID induced shortages ) and much higher interest rates. I hope I,m wrong, but all the signs are there.

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Moving into COVID-Normal...? Preparing for a post-COVID world, or "Living with COVID-19"

 

Here’s What You Need To Know About Long COVID

 

https://junkee.com/long-covid-explainer/319227 

 

As COVID cases continue to soar across Australia, the question is no longer “if” we will get the virus, rather, “when” and how bad it will be when we eventually test positive.

 

 

 

While the Omicron variant appears to be less severe than previous strains, the risk of contracting “long COVID” is still very real. So what exactly is long COVID and how do you know if you have it?

 

What Is Long COVID?

This isn’t an easy question to answer because we don’t fully understand what exactly constitutes long COVID, nor do we have a worldwide definition for what long COVID actually is. Naturally, this makes it tough.

 

The Australian Government defines long COVID as follows: “Long COVID is where symptoms of COVID-19 remain, or develop, long after the initial infection — usually after four weeks.”

It is estimated  that 10-30 percent of people who get COVID will suffer from long COVID.

How Do I Know If I Have It?

Basically, any symptom of COVID that occurs after the initial infection and cannot be otherwise explained (e.g you have a cold or flu) can be deemed long COVID. These symptoms include, but are not limited to:

  • Extreme fatigue
  • Shortness of breath
  • Heart palpitations
  • Chest pain/tightness
  • Memory loss and concentration issues
  • Lack of, or changes to, taste and smell
  • Joint and muscle pain

While these are the main symptoms, a study by the University College London (UCL) has also identified an additional 200 possible long COVID symptoms impacting 10 different organ systems. These symptoms include insomnia, hallucinations, gastrointestinal issues, menstrual changes and changes to skin conditions.

The severity of these symptoms varies from person to person.

Unfortunately, there’s no standard test to determine whether or not you have long COVID. Instead, your doctor will have to rule out all other possibilities before eventually putting it down to long COVID.

Just How Long Is Long COVID?

Like most other things regarding long COVID, we don’t actually know much about how long it lasts. A British study by the Office for National Statistics (ONS) for the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE) noted that nearly 10 percent of people reported at least one of their symptoms still lingering after twelve weeks.

 

It’s also worth noting that many have reported their symptoms coming and going, so even if you think you’re in the clear, you may not be.

“These symptoms, they come and go,” Kelly LaDue told NPR of her experience with long COVID in New York. “You think: ‘It’s gone.’ You think: ‘This is it. I’m getting better.’ And then it’ll just rear back up again.”

What Causes Long COVID?

The short and unfortunate answer is we don’t really know.

Scientists believe  it could be a result of the initial infection sending your immune system into overdrive — causing it to attack your own tissue, instead of just the virus. Additionally, the virus getting into different cells can cause damage that could have longer-term impacts (like the loss of taste and smell) that take longer to heal.

 

 

Alternatively, it could be as simple as the virus lying dormant in the body for months, only to become reactivated down the track, as we’ve seen previously with other viruses like glandular fever. However, there’s not much evidence to back this theory with COVID yet.

As it currently stands, experts believe long COVID is not caused by one specific thing, rather, a combination.

“It’s still early days. But we believe that long COVID is not caused by one thing. That there are multiple diseases that are happening,” Akiko Iwasaki, a professor of immunobiology at Yale University, who is studying long COVID, told NPR

“We are finding elevated cytokines in long-COVID patients and we’re trying to decode what those cytokines mean. We’re also seeing some distinct autoantibody reactivity and are trying to find out what those antibodies are doing and whether they are causing harm.”

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Moving into COVID-Normal...? Preparing for a post-COVID world, or "Living with COVID-19"

Barnaby Joyce is a shank-swiving swolderer, a festry fœtid ficulnean wag-wanton.

 

In the barricaded blisses of his privileged position, he comes out with "Well, people are not dying" in his interview on ABC RN Breakfast. (It's about 7′ 57″ in: the link to the interview is here.

 

Before that, there's a whole rigamarole about not being able to predict the future, blaming individuals for "hoarding" RATs, and blaming businesses for buying more than they need. Somewhere, apparently, secret hoarders must have stored all of these never-ordered-in-sufficient-quantity Rapid Antigen Tests, chuckling over them like gnomes over dragon's gold...

 

But Mr Joyce doesn't stop there. No, he goes on to consolidate his position that Australia is the envy of the world (well, we were - we aren't now), and dismisses the real effect that even the Omicron variant can have on people. Those who died... oh, how tragic, he concedes, in a not-very-convincing flippant follow-up. As for him, he only had mild symptoms, so he's so very sorry for people who get this "flu".

 

That sort of dismissive, foolish, self-entitled narrow viewpoint does not help the government at all.

 

 

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I see you're a fan of Joyce.😄

If I recall, he's the one who complained a while back that a politician's pay wasn't high enough and he was struggling to support 2 families on it.🙄

I saw this on the covid live website.

 

NSW vacc status of ICU and deaths  Nov 21 to 1 Jan 22.PNG

 

It is updated to only show vaccination status (in NSW) mainly for Dec, basically.  This would be when omicron was taking over but of course there still would have been some delta around.

What it is showing (to me) is that most of the people dying were fully vaccinated. In Dec, over 90% were double vaxxed and of those dying, only 64.7% were vaccinated, so obviously vaccination helps protect you against the extreme effects but it certainly isn't a sure thing.

Just because Barnaby had a mild case, we can't dismiss covid as a 'nothing'.

 

I think long term, we are going to have to implement some of the strategies you mentioned at the start.

1. More attention to our health and its effect on others eg not going to work if sick and spluttering.

2. Wearing a mask if we have a bad case of a cold or flu. This is something that wasn't part of our culture here at all in the past though mask wearing in China and some other countries wasn't unusual. Even when masks are no longer mandated, we need to keep the habit for when we are a bit unwell.

3.  The air filtration systems in shops, ships etc needs to be looked at. I was reading that there are filtration systems that are finer and can filter out the covid virus but they are more expensive. I think long term though, ships in particular will need to upgrade to them.

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Moving into COVID-Normal...? Preparing for a post-COVID world, or "Living with COVID-19"

springyzone, you got that vibe from me, hmm? And I was so restrained!!!

 

(And it's not as though I'm left-leaning and yearning to bite at Liberals or right-wingers. It's simply that Mr Joyce has shown himself to be a cheating lying loud-mouthed - WE INTERRUPT THIS BROADCAST TO TALK ABOUT THE MAJESTIC MØØSE.)

 

The deaths by age are very telling. Of the deaths of people under the age of 40 or so, the majority were unvaccinated. There are also some deaths of older people where they were either unvaccinated or had only had one dose. Even - very tragically and damningly - some deaths of people who were over 70 and/or had serious underlying medical conditions and had had three primary doses of the vaccine... undoubtedly because they were frightened of contracting COVID-19, knowing that they were vulnerable.

 

In those relatively few but awful cases, those people had done everything they could to protect themselves. They are the ones who pay the price when heedless and arrogant people blithely prance about maskless and ignoring social distancing.

 

But the point I wanted to make is that even though you are looking at the percentage of vaccinated people who died (or were in ICU, or hospitalised) as a high percentage, consider that in terms of the percentage of people who are vaccinated in NSW vs the percentage who are not. If outcomes were not affected by vaccination, you would expect to see >95% of deaths being of vaccinated people, and 5% being of unvaccinated people. (Reflecting vaccination levels.) But that isn't what we're seeing; instead, the unvaccinated are disproportionately represented in the number of cases requiring hospitalisation, the number of hospitalisations requiring ICU, and the number of deaths.

 

Yes - as you say, just because Barnaby Joyce experienced only mild symptoms, that doesn't convert to its being a mild disease. He's VACCINATED and presumably doesn't have the sort of underlying health conditions that put him severely at risk. He should rightly attribute the mildness he experienced to the protection offered by the vaccines.

 

 

 

 

 

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Moving into COVID-Normal...? Preparing for a post-COVID world, or "Living with COVID-19"


@countessalmirena wrote:

 

 

But the point I wanted to make is that even though you are looking at the percentage of vaccinated people who died (or were in ICU, or hospitalised) as a high percentage, consider that in terms of the percentage of people who are vaccinated in NSW vs the percentage who are not. If outcomes were not affected by vaccination, you would expect to see >95% of deaths being of vaccinated people, and 5% being of unvaccinated people. (Reflecting vaccination levels.) But that isn't what we're seeing; instead, the unvaccinated are disproportionately represented in the number of cases requiring hospitalisation, the number of hospitalisations requiring ICU, and the number of deaths.

 

-----------------

Yes that is exactly right. Those dying are not following the proportions of those vaccinated or we would expect over 90% of those dying to be vaccinated. The fact that the figure is only at 64.7% means that vaccination is offering some protection against the more extreme effects but I guess what I was trying most to point out to the likes of Barnaby is that it isn't a sure fire thing and nor is it necessarily mild, even for a vaccinated person, so he shouldn't dismiss it too lightly.

 

Having said that, I have just spent a somewhat interesting morning on the phone and in facebook chat etc. First was a call from older dughter. Has just tested positive to covid. Not feeling too bad but had been going to come over here Sunday for a swim but had an upset stomach and touch of diarrhoea so didn't. Said her symptoms aren't too severe at the moment except her bones ache.

 

So where did she get it? Who knows but she contacted her sister and said she suspected she got it from her. Now my other daughter is away down the beach in a caravan with her family. She was quite ill this time last week, had symptoms, headache, dizziness, cold, cough etc so came home and got tested. Negative.  Her husband then caught whatever she had, like a headcold for a couple of days but feels fine now. They went back to their holiday once they felt fine.

They used the rest of the RAT kits today to test. My daughter is still neg, her husband a strong positive. He feels 100% back to normal now. No sign the kids have it.

My daughter has underlying health problems so covid has been a worry. I can't understand why her tests (both) would be showing neg if she had it.

But the thing is, they have been having a good holiday paddle boarding each day, to the Rye fair, mixing with family etc once they felt well. They would not have tested today at all except for my other daughter testing positive.

So for young ones, it can indeed be mild I guess but it just goes to show how easy it is to spread as people may not even be aware they have it.

 

 

 

 

 


 

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