Protecting children from things adult and improper. Where should the boundaries be?

[4channel]

Protecting children from things adult and improper. Where should the boundaries be?

Today children are exposed to things that 20 years ago were unheard of. As time creeps on we see more and more things that challenge belief. In film and on television, extremely violent imagery is such an accepted and major part of entertainment that some cannot enjoy a film or program unless it is violent.

In what passes for music, the lyrics are more explicit and sexually laden than they ever were. A great deal of the video clips that appear on television would be considered pornography once upon a time. Other forms of music such as some rap have lyrics about killing people, guns and putting down women in the worst possible way.

Something that would be laughed off as impossible years ago, children before they can even walk properly are now exposed to adult entertainers such as drag queens as part of some supposed education or enlightenment program. Some of these drag queens have names of male and female genitalia. Some have names that relate to sexual scents and arousal. Some even have gone as far as doing stripping routines, twerking, teaching twerking, and  other blatant sexually suggestive behaviour. They are even reading childrens stories that are an alternative to the male and female relationships or the birth genders..

Children are playing violent video games which are much more graphic and interactive than what they were in the past. Many are not interested in a video game unless it is violent. They can play for hours and hours on these games, either connected to their own source or a source that is online. Some of the games are so violent that some adults are sickened to the degree that they refuse to even talk about it. Others that do find it almost impossible to comprehend.

* Where should the boundaries be set or where should they have been set?

* What effect is this having on children today?

* How will things be in ten or twenty years time?

[k1ooo-slr-sales]

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@dvd.horder wrote:

i think ...4 channel.... is..not   answering  because he has ..SOME MEMBERS OF  [ THE CIRCLE ]   ON IGNORE

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well, the questions I have asked are legitimate questions.  Maybe those that 4chan still replies to can reply to my ‘questions post’ so that 4chan can see them, OR, copy and post my questions.

As I said, they are legitimate questions.

I think they put me on ignore when I called them out when they accused me of keeping a dossier about the ra157 thread when in actual fact all I did was follow a link to that thread that they had posted.  I called them on this claim that I kept a dossier and asked for an apology . . . none was forthcoming.  They also accused me of raising that ra157 case when it was clearly them.  And they have the hide to claim there are bullies on these boards!

The only reason I am posting about it here is because, as reported by dvd.horder, 4chan doesn’t like reading my posts.  Too bad if someone who is not ignored by them replies to this post and quotes my post.

Oh, and by the way, 4chan has often asked members to message them directly through Private Messages if they have an issue with him . . . well, I did send a Private Message and didn’t get a reply!

[katistrophik]

Oh no, how disappointed you must be

Spoiler

But surely, not surpised LOL

[the_great_she_elephant]

Getting back to the topic: the bottom line is that people can rant and rave till they're blue in the face about the evils of gansta rap, but unless or until we have some hard statistics to show how many children are listening to how many hours of it,  any argument that it is damaging them is nothing more than assumption - and we all know that old saying about assumption, don't we?

[countessalmirena]

There doesn't seem to be any doubt about the connection between gangsta rap (and the associated sub-genres) and street crime/street gangs with their violence and criminal lifestyles and specific slang becoming the basis for the lyrics.

From a very quick look at the history of gangsta rap, once certain of its sub-genres became more mainstream, becoming popular with teens in particular, there was a perception among hard-core gangsta rappers that it had become smoothed, sold out, robbed of its essential quality. That led to associated sub-genres becoming established with a more violent core, more explicitly associated with criminal violence, and in the UK some performers of that sort of music are banned from performing music that promotes violence. Apparently sufficient rappers of that sort are actually serving time for gang-related crimes/violent crimes that the line between depiction for artistic purposes and depiction to boast or outrage while at the same time being paid for it has become too blurred to be determined.

And then there's the sub-genre which glorifies the "proceeds of crime" lifestyle - big money, big cars, big exploitation of women, big guns.

This stuff seems - to me - to have a tendency to become drawn into the mainstream where there is always an attempt to pretty it up to an extent. It's not that the violence of the lyrics becomes less, it's that the violence is somehow glamorised. Even the grittiest elements become glamorised. What seems to an extent inexplicable to me is the glamorisation of misery and exploitation; ask for an explanation... and the listeners of this stuff say "You don't understand", which says to me that there's an underlying and subconscious attachment to the offensive and outrageous while not endorsing the actual explicitness of it. Teenagers are especially drawn to this combination; it's ideal as a finger to the establishment.

(I'm no expert. Believe me... This is not my speciality.)

Again... I can only reiterate my position, which is that parents who don't want their children listening to foul, violent and explicit lyrics should be giving their children time, loving discipline, guidance, and an environment in which the children feel safe and loved and encouraged to explore without doing so in areas that are too murky and disgusting for them to handle as children whose brains are still developing. Parents are the bulwark, and they cannot farm out that responsibility to the state, to a babysitter, to an iPad with parental locks, to children's videos, to this, to that, etc. The parent who doesn't spend quality time with his/her child is not doing what is best for the child. That's not a negotiable viewpoint for me.

[4channel]

Is someone gets to a certain age, say i  their 50s and beyond, and they still haven't worked out that music promoting violence, guns, murder, blowing a man away for dissing,  drug use, rape, misogyny etc. may be bad then they need to start life over again. 

Repetitive suggestions is what cults use. The CIA has done similar.  The music rhymes are repetitive and a lot goes into the subconscious mind of a young person which is like a sponge. If we waste time waiting for some supposed official sanctioned study to be brought to use by main stream media, we will be waiting a very long time. In the interim young minds are being polluted and damaged.

[the_great_she_elephant]

Which still begs the questions:

How much gangsta rap are children actually listening to?

At what age do they start listening to it?

Is gangsta rap actually the cause or the product of gang related violence? 

[k1ooo-slr-sales]

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@4channel wrote:

Repetitive suggestions is what cults use.

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oh the irony of it 😂

[countessalmirena]

4channel, are you postulating that posters here think that music promoting rape, for example, isn't bad? Is that your position?

That is not what I see in this thread.

Rather, what I see is that you are repeatedly hurling about your outrage about this genre on a forum which has no power to stop any adult from making music in this style, using such lyrics, performing such lyrics, recording such lyrics, etc.

If young minds are being polluted and damaged by this genre, the buck stops with the parents.

There are many things that can pollute and damage young minds. Being in a family situation where scamming and taking the easy way out are implicitly or explicitly encouraged, being in a family situation where alcohol and drugs create a hellish environment, having parents who are ignorant of logic or don't teach their children basic responsibility, having wealthy parents who spoil their children to the point that the kids simply expect the latest this and the latest that, having parents who don't help their children when they find certain subjects too difficult... I could go on, but I've illustrated what I mean.

Parents have the most enormous responsibility. It's not just about protecting their children... It's about preparing them for adulthood, when they need to be able to make good decisions without anyone obliging them to do so.

We will never have a perfect world. Human beings aren't perfect. There have always been and always will be temptations and darkness and violence and hatred, because those things arise as a result of the internal, not the external. That is, human nature has those potentials, and I don't believe there is any education that can eradicate those potentials or result in perfect human beings.

What parents can do is bring their children the example and encouragement to explore and value the ability to overcome, to forgive oneself for mistakes and to go on having learnt from them, to seek clarity and wisdom and peace and respect and love, because they too are part of human potential.

If you want to agitate for change concerning gangsta rap, contact your local government representative, write newspaper articles, create a website, set up a YouTube channel promoting your position. If you simply want to talk about it, posting here is fine because this is a Community board for discussion of non-eBay things, after all... but just be aware that you won't achieve anything other than to receive some other viewpoints which may often agree in part with the substance of what you say but may equally well disagree with the surrounding albumen of it. In fact, I'm sure you must be aware of that, so I'm probably not posting anything with which you're not already familiar.

[4channel]

what you say you see me doing and what I am doing are two different things countessalmirena.  I won't go any further or take any bait.

I'm all for discussion and debate. It has to be in fair setting but that's a topic for another thread.

[4channel]

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@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

Which still begs the questions:

How much gangsta rap are children actually listening to?

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"How much".  Well any amount is too much.

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@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

At what age do they start listening to it?

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It can be any age. I have seen cars go past with little ones in the car and heard the usual profanities and thug-life etc. references. OK, well, that's exposure! What many concerned folk know is that gangsta rappers who have promoted thug life,  gang life through music are now inserted into kids movies.

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@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

Is gangsta rap actually the cause or the product of gang related violence? 

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IT can be both a product and a cause. The glorification of being a thug with a wad of money in one hand and a gun in the other with women swooning around him is in the music. Many young people are impressionable. I have seen this myself. The product is something peddled by rich men (mostly Caucasian)  who exploit this. The product can then become the cause again.

Many African Americans are sickened, disgusted by this genre and how the negative stereotypes are just further driven in to the minds of people. I remember correcting a couple of people about the "N word" and how many people of colour would never dream of using it. Yet, film and music tell a different story and like the case with the 2 people I corrected, the belief is formed from what people hear and see in music and fiction.

Below are a couple of interesting articles.

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How Hip-Hop Holds Blacks Back
Violence, misogyny, and lawlessness are nothing to sing about.

John H. McWhorter
Summer 2003 Arts and Culture
The Social Order

Not long ago, I was having lunch in a KFC in Harlem, sitting near eight African-American boys, aged about 14. Since 1) it was 1:30 on a school day, 2) they were carrying book bags, and 3) they seemed to be in no hurry, I assumed they were skipping school. They were extremely loud and unruly, tossing food at one another and leaving it on the floor.

Black people ran the restaurant and made up the bulk of the customers, but it was hard to see much healthy “black community” here. After repeatedly warning the boys to stop throwing food and keep quiet, the manager finally told them to leave. The kids ignored her. Only after she called a male security guard did they start slowly making their way out, tauntingly circling the restaurant before ambling off. These teens clearly weren’t monsters, but they seemed to consider themselves exempt from public norms of behavior—as if they had begun to check out of mainstream society.

To read more please click on the link below.

https://www.city-journal.org/html/how-hip-hop-holds-blacks-back-12442.html

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npr

Science

Study: Rap Music Linked to Alcohol, Violence

May 8, 20069:00 AM ET
Heard on News & Notes

A recent study by the Prevention Research Center of the Pacific Institute for Research and Evaluation in Berkeley, Calif., suggests young people who listen to rap and hip-hop are more likely to abuse alcohol and commit violent acts. Ed Gordon discusses the issue with Denise Herd, an associate professor at the University of California Berkeley School of Public Health, and David Jernigan, executive director of the Center on Alcohol Marketing and Youth at Georgetown University.

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5390075

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