on 19-03-2020 02:53 PM
on 19-03-2020 03:49 PM
on 19-03-2020 04:24 PM
@davidc4430 wrote:Qantas has just stood down 20,000 staff. How can they do that?
By standing them down.
Like any business they have a right to determine how many staff they employ. If they aren't flying internationally and have reduced in-country services, where would the money come from to pay people they don't have work for?
on 19-03-2020 04:50 PM
@davewil1964 wrote:
@davidc4430 wrote:Qantas has just stood down 20,000 staff. How can they do that?
By standing them down.
Like any business they have a right to determine how many staff they employ. If they aren't flying internationally and have reduced in-country services, where would the money come from to pay people they don't have work for?
My take is Australian companies are subject to the Australian " fair go" principles - ( regardless of management nationality or foreign educated influences ) in this case is " fair go" that QANTAS reduce overheads by temporarily suspending employment of workers but said workers can draw upon leave entitlements , maybe superannuation and with re-employment company guaranteed , ( also so the company can not use this issue as an cover to discharge unliked workers.)
The Australian " fair-go" , as this contagion will pass, would grant
Govt make available special PENSION payments without usual red tape - as they are unemployed due to a pandemic sickness , that will pass.
Govt make available without red tape rent assistance for now unemployed workers who are tenants and mortgage assistance in like manner for Mortgagee workers
Gross difference in earnings to be tallied and paid back by QANTAS upon reappointment of employment with QANTAS as compo for enduring unemployment to remain available immediately upon post plague company requirements
( This would also is discourage US style cavilier mass dismissive lay-off, re-employ workplace culture, which would be disstablising here )
on 19-03-2020 05:52 PM
@rogespeed wrote:
@davewil1964 wrote:
@davidc4430 wrote:Qantas has just stood down 20,000 staff. How can they do that?
By standing them down.
Like any business they have a right to determine how many staff they employ. If they aren't flying internationally and have reduced in-country services, where would the money come from to pay people they don't have work for?
My take is Australian companies are subject to the Australian " fair go" principles - ( regardless of management nationality or foreign educated influences ) in this case is " fair go" that QANTAS reduce overheads by temporarily suspending employment of workers but said workers can draw upon leave entitlements , maybe superannuation and with re-employment company guaranteed , ( also so the company can not use this issue as an cover to discharge unliked workers.)
The Australian " fair-go" , as this contagion will pass, would grant
Govt make available special PENSION payments without usual red tape - as they are unemployed due to a pandemic sickness , that will pass.
Govt make available without red tape rent assistance for now unemployed workers who are tenants and mortgage assistance in like manner for Mortgagee workers
Gross difference in earnings to be tallied and paid back by QANTAS upon reappointment of employment with QANTAS as compo for enduring unemployment to remain available immediately upon post plague company requirements
( This would also is discourage US style cavilier mass dismissive lay-off, re-employ workplace culture, which would be disstablising here )
Australian companies are subject to Australian law. "Fair go" is not a legal requirement. If it is in Qantas's best interests to have these people available when they ramp operations back up, Qantas will facilitate that to the extent they can or want to afford. If not, 20,000 people will be on the dole.
The government is unlikely to offer Qantas employees, or any pandemic affected workers, anything the general unemployed populace is not getting. It would be political suicide.
on 19-03-2020 06:22 PM
it really is showing that when push comes to shove the PM is ignored by pretty much everyone
having him on the telly imploring business to not sack workers but to keep the faith as his govt grapples with this disaster looks great but isnt going to do anything.
the mighty $ is what matters
we are on the cusp of seeing hundreds of thousands of people told, "go home and wait for us to call you."
"oh, and while your waiting, live on no income"
this is going to be the bigest headache this govt is about to face and you cant buy paracetamol!
on 19-03-2020 10:28 PM
@davewil1964 wrote:
@rogespeed wrote:
@davewil1964 wrote:
@davidc4430 wrote:Qantas has just stood down 20,000 staff. How can they do that?
By standing them down.
Like any business they have a right to determine how many staff they employ. If they aren't flying internationally and have reduced in-country services, where would the money come from to pay people they don't have work for?
My take is Australian companies are subject to the Australian " fair go" principles - ( regardless of management nationality or foreign educated influences ) in this case is " fair go" that QANTAS reduce overheads by temporarily suspending employment of workers but said workers can draw upon leave entitlements , maybe superannuation and with re-employment company guaranteed , ( also so the company can not use this issue as an cover to discharge unliked workers.)
The Australian " fair-go" , as this contagion will pass, would grant
Govt make available special PENSION payments without usual red tape - as they are unemployed due to a pandemic sickness , that will pass.
Govt make available without red tape rent assistance for now unemployed workers who are tenants and mortgage assistance in like manner for Mortgagee workers
Gross difference in earnings to be tallied and paid back by QANTAS upon reappointment of employment with QANTAS as compo for enduring unemployment to remain available immediately upon post plague company requirements
( This would also is discourage US style cavilier mass dismissive lay-off, re-employ workplace culture, which would be disstablising here )
Australian companies are subject to Australian law. "Fair go" is not a legal requirement. If it is in Qantas's best interests to have these people available when they ramp operations back up, Qantas will facilitate that to the extent they can or want to afford. If not, 20,000 people will be on the dole.
The government is unlikely to offer Qantas employees, or any pandemic affected workers, anything the general unemployed populace is not getting. It would be political suicide.
Not so fast , you underestimate the value of the national carriers in the hearts and minds of the Australian people
( although should be in exchange for an issue of special shares , sellable at discretion once the company has resumed normal scheduling )
19-03-2020 10:57 PM - edited 19-03-2020 10:58 PM
@davidc4430 wrote:it really is showing that when push comes to shove the PM is ignored by pretty much everyone
having him on the telly imploring business to not sack workers but to keep the faith as his govt grapples with this disaster looks great but isnt going to do anything.
the mighty $ is what matters
we are on the cusp of seeing hundreds of thousands of people told, "go home and wait for us to call you."
"oh, and while your waiting, live on no income"
this is going to be the bigest headache this govt is about to face and you cant buy paracetamol!
In the case of the recent Qantas announcement I think you are being a bit disingenuous. From the reports on the media tonight including the airline workers union rep, it appears the permanent employees are being asked ( forced ) to take all accrued leave etc. but are still receiving weekly income from the company.
Yes many of the casuals have been made redundant and yes many other people ( including huge numbers of small business owners / bosses ) will undoubtedly become unemployed but it appears Qantas is pulling out all stops to manage the employment crisis as best it can. And hats off to Alan Joyce, ( Qantas CEO ) He's already leading from the front, by not drawing a salary for the duration of the crisis. He is one of our top business people showing true leadership.
on 19-03-2020 11:24 PM
@chameleon54 wrote:
@davidc4430 wrote:it really is showing that when push comes to shove the PM is ignored by pretty much everyone
having him on the telly imploring business to not sack workers but to keep the faith as his govt grapples with this disaster looks great but isnt going to do anything.
the mighty $ is what matters
we are on the cusp of seeing hundreds of thousands of people told, "go home and wait for us to call you."
"oh, and while your waiting, live on no income"
this is going to be the bigest headache this govt is about to face and you cant buy paracetamol!
In the case of the recent Qantas announcement I think you are being a bit disingenuous. From the reports on the media tonight including the airline workers union rep, it appears the permanent employees are being asked ( forced ) to take all accrued leave etc. but are still receiving weekly income from the company.
Yes many of the casuals have been made redundant and yes many other people ( including huge numbers of small business owners / bosses ) will undoubtedly become unemployed but it appears Qantas is pulling out all stops to manage the employment crisis as best it can. And hats off to Allen Joyce, ( Qantas CEO ) He's already leading from the front, by not drawing a salary for the duration of the crisis. He is one of our top business people showing true leadership.
My understanding is that they are being stood-down , like temporary retrenchment , with access to accrued leave , holiday pay etc and the kindly guaranteed of resumed employment after the crisis has passed .
QANTAS offers resumed employment , no springs attached, the workers avail themselves to resume work at QANTAS at the expense of not changing employers ( although can )
QANTAS offers continued employment , the Workers offer continued skilled labour with zero retraining
QANTAS trades with better bottomline that ensures survival , Workers effectively in reserve to QANTAS suffer living life at mostly much lower inputs with now stressing financial obligations until resumption.
QANTAS trades with massive reduction in overheads with maybe proportionally less profit , maybe not, crisis over then ramps up services , seeking to return to normal, so recalls workers who are now suffering from personal and critical nett loss of input earnings - Seems the workers might have a case to claim the balance of lost earnings that they endured because of the unexpected national calamity and their willingness to wait to resume employment at effectively their still current place of employment.