Should the Burqa be banned in Australia

nero_bolt
Community Member

Should the Burqa and Niqab be banned in Australia?

 

mangisi-niqab-burqa-hijab.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Re: Should the Burqa be banned in Australia

Just a general comment (not really a reply)

 

 

This word "confronting".  In the context above, it doesn't really describe much about what the word means, about what is it particularly which "confronts" when a middle aged man wears speedos in public. Ok, the image might not be aesthetic, and confronts one's sense of that.

 

The image and the appearance of a woman dressed in a burqa in public is "confronting" for a very different reason.

 

It's not the aesthetics which confront (or not so much, anyway) but what confronts some people when they see a woman in a burqa is the reminder of the values and the traditions and the rules of Islam with regard to women.

 

That is what is confronting.

 

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Re: Should the Burqa be banned in Australia


@am*3 wrote:

Please give this man a robe.

 

Manly men are more masculine

 

Just look at our Speedo-wearing, bicycle-riding Prime Minister and Member for Warringah Tony Abbott.

 

 Published in The Daily Telegraph - April, 2014

 

image.jpg


He's 54 or 56? (can't remember), still got a pretty ripped body. Still engaging in surf life saving activities and still competing in triathalons - that is seriously not too shabby, regardless of who you are. He's fit, he's toned, and no wobbly bits, so really, why is this an issue?

 

 

OK, I admit I have seen prettier heads, but a suit and tie or a pair of boardies ain't going to hide that!

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Re: Should the Burqa be banned in Australia


@iapetus_rocks wrote:

Just a general comment (not really a reply)

 

 

This word "confronting".  In the context above, it doesn't really describe much about what the word means, about what is it particularly which "confronts" when a middle aged man wears speedos in public. Ok, the image might not be aesthetic, and confronts one's sense of that.

 

The image and the appearance of a woman dressed in a burqa in public is "confronting" for a very different reason.

 

It's not the aesthetics which confront (or not so much, anyway) but what confronts some people when they see a woman in a burqa is the reminder of the values and the traditions and the rules of Islam with regard to women.

 

That is what is confronting.

 


I was just going with the meaning that confronting said to make a person feel uncomfortable. So I get that some things make others uncomfortable.

 

There you go, you have provided another reason why people feel uncomfortable (ie confronted) when seeing someone wearing a burqa. That one never occurred to me. I was going with the hidden identity angle.

 

And as far as male bodies go, apart from the head, they don't get a lot better than the one in those pictures, regardless of the age. He's pretty toned and ripped, especially for an old guy. So are we back to it is the male physique in speedos that is confronting? It has nothing to do with the fact that this example is that of the Prime Minister?

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Re: Should the Burqa be banned in Australia

I think that the PM deliberately appears in public in speedos because he is attempting to send a political message.

 

The message being "I'm a real Aussie bloke, rough and tough and masculine". it's an old-fashioned appeal, an appeal maybe to those who hold old-fashioned conservative values.

 

Those who wear burqas are also presenting a political message. It's the politics of the womens' lot in Islam. Some women wear it proudly, in much the same way our PM wears his speedos.

 

Some women wear it under duress, and there's a political message in that too, I suppose. Of course, it is impossible to know for what reason any particular woman wears the burqa, unless we ask her . . .  and that, might be considered to be a "confronting" question to the woman concerned, if only because she feels constrained to answer it in a certain way.

 

Those who wear the burqa from choice, will tell us they do so.

 

But, those who (in Australia)  are constrained to wear the burqa, will also tell us that it is worn by free choice; and that is part of their constraint. They cannot say otherwise without penalty from their menfolk.

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Re: Should the Burqa be banned in Australia

OK, I admit I have seen prettier heads, but a suit and tie or a pair of boardies ain't going to hide that!

 

Need a burqa equivalent for males.Cat LOL

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Re: Should the Burqa be banned in Australia

In Australia, we just use a paper bag...

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Re: Should the Burqa be banned in Australia


@iapetus_rocks wrote:

I think that the PM deliberately appears in public in speedos because he is attempting to send a political message.

 

The message being "I'm a real Aussie bloke, rough and tough and masculine". it's an old-fashioned appeal, an appeal maybe to those who hold old-fashioned conservative values.

 

Those who wear burqas are also presenting a political message. It's the politics of the womens' lot in Islam. Some women wear it proudly, in much the same way our PM wears his speedos.

 

Some women wear it under duress, and there's a political message in that too, I suppose. Of course, it is impossible to know for what reason any particular woman wears the burqa, unless we ask her . . .  and that, might be considered to be a "confronting" question to the woman concerned, if only because she feels constrained to answer it in a certain way.

 

Those who wear the burqa from choice, will tell us they do so.

 

But, those who (in Australia)  are constrained to wear the burqa, will also tell us that it is worn by free choice; and that is part of their constraint. They cannot say otherwise without penalty from their menfolk.


Whilst the public appearance may be politically influenced, I am not convinced that his choice of attire is. He has always been involved in Surf Life Saving and Triathlons, and speedos are typical attire for those pursuits. I am inclined to think that he wears speedos because that is what he has become comfortable wearing and being in decent form sees no reason to wear clothing that would restrict his activities.

 

He might be the PM, but he is still entitled to pursue his personal recreational interests and it makes sense that he would be drawn towards those activities with which he is familiar and has a long term association with.

 

If it is an image or message thing, I don't think it is one he has newly adapted for the purposes of political office, but rather that his recreational pursuits and interests have provided him with that image and he has just run with it.

 

If I remember rightly, Joe Bjelke Peterson was regularly adorned in country kind of attire, including an akubra. This is who he was, a reflection of his background.

 

I can think of a lot worse images the leader of our country could portray than a fit aussie male heavily involved with beach and surf activities -  If Russ Hinze was our PM, the image would be of a morbidly obese oyster scoffing gambler who loved a punt on the ponies.

 

Old fashioned Values - haha - I can still remember the incongrous picture of Julia Gillard sitting in a comfy chair knitting a toy kangaroo.

 

As for the burqa, maybe people find it confronting simply because it is new to many Australians, different to what we are used to. The closest thing with which an Australian can probably associate is Ned Kelly, and he wasn't wearing his head covering because he was a Boy Scout.. Maybe in time we will get used to it, but I hope that our safety and security are never compromised because of those with nefarious intentions taking advantage of it.

 

I guess it will always be difficult when two very different cultures try to coexist without a sufficient period of adjustment.

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Re: Should the Burqa be banned in Australia

If it is an image or message thing, I don't think it is one he has newly adapted for the purposes of political office, but rather that his recreational pursuits and interests have provided him with that image and he has just run with it.

 

Yes, I agree.

 

And the image of Julia Gillard knitting that kangaroo is still cringeworthy, and it was such an obvious attempt at public image managing.

 

They all do it to one degree or other. viz, Bob Katter; the Kat in the hat? 😉

 

The burqa is confronting to the average Aussie on many levels. And honestly, not many average Aussies understand why it is worn and even less do they understand anything about the religion which encourages its' wearing.

 

 

 

I guess it will always be difficult when two very different cultures try to coexist without a sufficient period of adjustment.

 

 

Ah, you raise an interesting point. a sufficient period of adjustment. Are we to adjust our mindset to theirs, or are they to adjust theirs to ours?

 

 

or is a compromise possible?

 

 

I don't know if Islam is able to adjust very much. I do think that Muslims can adjust themselves to read their scriptures more critically and to empahsise the good things written there and to de-emphasise the bad.

 

That has happened where Christianity is concerned. There remain a lot of nasty things written in the Bible which are now thankfully ignored by followers of it.

 

The same will happen in Islam in time,  though right now, it seems to be that that time remains a long way off.

 

Meanwhile, fundamental interpretaion of scritpure continues to cause misery world-wide.

 

What's the remedy? Well, one of the problems is that even many Muslims do not understand what Islam teaches. They are not encouraged to read the Koran in their own language, but are encouraged to read and to memorize it in Arabic, a language which many of them don't understand.

 

 

It has been said that the Koran is beautiful poetry. But beautiful sounds may contain ugly ideas, and those ideas  can remain unappreciated by those who recite the sounds but who don't understand what those sounds  mean.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Message 1298 of 1,581
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Re: Should the Burqa be banned in Australia

I'd just like to reply to I-need-a-martini . . . I can't find the post, 'twas likely on another thread.

 

Martini was critical of me for my views and on my understanding of Islam and asked if I have read more than just the Koran. Well, yes I have. I remember having said that I have read all of the koran and some of the hadith and the sunna.

 

Martini said she had read one page of the Koran (please correct me if I am wrong)

 

My point is that some others may criticise me for having an incomplete knowledge of Islam; and that I admit to. But I cannot accept such criticism from ones who by their own admission, have read less about it than I have.

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Re: Should the Burqa be banned in Australia

just a quickie. Things to do and places to be an all.

 

In reference to who should adapt - I guess there was a time when cultures such as the Chinese Community were assimilated with ours, but that was either before my time or in a way in which I wasn't aware, as the way Australia is now, is the only way I have ever recognized Australia to be.

 

So having acknowledged that ignorance of how two differing cultures adjust, I am inclined to think that the existing culture should dominate, but not in a totalitarian manner. I have no problem with making allowances, promoting tolerance and encouraging the continuation of some of their practises, but not to such an extent that it compromises the essence or traditions of what it is that makes Australia who we are.

 

Whilst I think that inclusion must be emphasised, I don't think that we should have to stop celebrating Christmas in schools (for example), adjust our laws, or provide opportunities where the assimilating minority expects to be excused from adhering to the standards that we have in place - i am referring here to the whole wearing burqa scenario when identification of a person is essential for others of society as an example.

 

If they (whoever they happens to be at the time) choose to live in Australia, then I think that they need to accept what it is that Australia offers.

 

Let them build mosques, provide them with access to Halal food, respect and incorporate their culture where possible, learn about their traditional customs and beliefs and provide for them within our guidelines, but not to the extent where our identity is compromised. I object to being told that our culture, customs and traditions are unsatisfactory and I object to being asked to adjust our laws to accomodate their cultural practises (I am thinking here of polygamy, stonings etc). Following a period of ESL education, the children need to be educated in our system, (poor buggers) and if necessary, educated in theirs as an addition or suppliment to ours.

 

In time, we will become accustomed to their presence and over time it is inevitable that there will be a subtle shift in the Australia that I know now as the two cultures combine.

 

We seemed to be ok with cultures such as the Chinese (for example), elements of their culture have certainly permeated ours, but Australia is not a replica of China and i think that the Chinese immigrants have had to make more adaptations and changes than we have, but I don't think that too many of them have returned to China unsatisfied with their situation here.

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