Shroud of Turin shown amid new research

[catsnknots]

This is something I would love to go and see... don't know if it is real or not but I still think it would be amazing. 

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/shroud-of-turin-shown-amid-new-research/story-fn3dxix6-1226609705959

THE Shroud of Turin has gone on display for a special TV appearance amid new research disputing claims it's a medieval fake and purporting to date the linen some say was Jesus' burial cloth to around the time of his death.

Pope Francis sent a special video message to the event in Turin's cathedral, but made no claim that the image on the shroud of a man with wounds similar to those suffered by Christ was really that of Jesus. He called the cloth an "icon," not a relic - an important distinction.

"This image, impressed upon the cloth, speaks to our heart and moves us to climb the hill of Calvary, to look upon the wood of the Cross, and to immerse ourselves in the eloquent silence of love," he said.

"This disfigured face resembles all those faces of men and women marred by a life which does not respect their dignity, by war and violence which afflict the weakest.

"And yet, at the same time, the face in the Shroud conveys a great peace; this tortured body expresses a sovereign majesty."

Many experts stand by carbon-dating of scraps of the cloth that date it to the 13th or 14th century. However, some have suggested the dating results might have been skewed by contamination and have called for a larger sample to be analysed.

The Vatican has tiptoed around just what the cloth is, calling it a powerful symbol of Christ's suffering while making no claim to its authenticity.

The 4.3-metre-long, one metre-wide cloth is kept in a bulletproof, climate-controlled case in Turin's cathedral, but is only rarely open to the public. The last time was in 2010 when more than two million people lined up to pray before it and then-Pope Benedict XVI visited.

It was only the second time the shroud has gone on display specifically for a TV audience; the first was in 1973 at the request of Pope Paul VI, the Vatican said.

The display also coincided with the release of a book based on new scientific tests on the shroud that researchers say date the cloth to the 1st century.

The research in "The Mystery of the Shroud," by Giulio Fanti of the University of Padua and journalist Saverio Gaeta, is based on chemical and mechanical tests on fibres of material extracted for the carbon-dating research.

An article with the findings is expected to be submitted for peer-review, news reports say.

[azureline**]

Shrouds are not always the same. They would usually be whatever they had available at the time and depend on the wealth of the family?

[lakeland27]

The official report of the dating process, written by the people who performed the sampling, states that the sample "came from a single site on the main body of the shroud away from any patches or charred areas."

From Wikipedia.

yes, but i mean this

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c3/Secundo_Pia_Turinske_platno_1898.jpg

[lakeland27]

the hair doesn't appear compressed as i'd expect to see, i admit i know little about how a shroud was fitted or wrapped, but it looks like a flat negative with the hair itself free and unencumbered.

[azureline**]

http://www.shroud.com/examine.htm

[**meep**]

the contamination of cloth used to repair the burnt shroud brings the carbon dating into question.

In the scientific journal Thermochimica Acta, Raymond Rogers writes:

"The combined evidence from chemical kinetics, analytical chemistry, cotton content, and pyrolysis/ms proves that the material from the radiocarbon area of the shroud is significantly different from that of the main cloth. The radiocarbon sample was thus not part of the original cloth and is invalid for determining the age of the shroud."

[azureline**]

the hair doesn't appear compressed as i'd expect to see, i admit i know little about how a shroud was fitted or wrapped, but it looks like a flat negative with the hair itself free and unencumbered.

http://www.shroud.com/faq.htm#2

[monman12]

The piece of cloth submitted for dating was not from a burnt area, and the original 3 independent carbon dating studies estimates still stand (and always will):-

"Very small samples from the Shroud of Turin have been dated by accelerator mass spectrometry in laboratories at Arizona, Oxford and Zurich.  As Controls, three samples whose ages had been determined independently were also dated.  The results provide conclusive evidence that the linen of the Shroud of Turin is medieval."

The shroud's alleged provenance makes perfect sense if you are religious:  possible physical proof to support a faith which is totally lacking in scientific evidence. Why the constant grasping at physical "signs" to reinforce a belief? Does not one's faith suffice?

Anyway, Easter is actually a Pagan festival  celebrating the spring equinox before the Christians nicked it after a couple of thousand years as it was such a good gig.

[*crikey*mate*]

Anyway, Easter is actually a Pagan festival  celebrating the spring equinox before the Christians nicked it after a couple of thousand years as it was such a good gig.

celebrating new life - isn't that what resurrection is all about?

the name Easter is an example of how Christianity adopted alternate religious traditions as it spread into "Pagan territory". I.e. to integrate it with other beliefs.

Eastre is the name of a fertility Goddess whose festival was celebrated in the spring, when new life was blooming all around. Her celebrations were replete with symbols of fertility, including eggs, and bunnies (prolific propagators and thereby symbols of fertility).

So, whilst it was acceptable to continue to celebrate the new life around you, but the ultimate reason was to celebrate the resurrection of Jesus from the dead.

Makes you wonder what day Jesus really was crucified, eh? I mean, the dates of Easter change every year. We "know" that on the third day he arose from the dead, but exactly what date was that?

How were dates recorded "back then"? Were they? Or was it enough to say "it happened in the Spring", thus when actually documenting the events several hundred years later, it all just sort of fitted in with the whole fertility thing and the desperation to convert the Pagans and make Christianity acceptable to a wider demographic?

[the_great_she_elephant]

the hair doesn't appear compressed as i'd expect to see, i admit i know little about how a shroud was fitted or wrapped, but it looks like a flat negative with the hair itself free and unencumbered.

Another problem is that if the cloth was wrapped around the head then you would expect the image to be distorted - looking too wide - as it would include both sides of the face and the ears which would not be seen in a frontal portrait.

[the_great_she_elephant]

I've also seen it suggested that the front and back don't actually match up.