So who said on here that women & men in Australia are treated equally?

[i-need-a-martini]

It wasn't that long ago we were arguing this with many saying the sexes were treated equally. And others saying there is no reason for feminism.

Well here is a good reason for women to stand up for their rights:

THE pay gap between male and female university graduates is growing with figures showing the difference more than doubled to $5000 last year.

A study released by the Australian government's Workplace Gender Equality Agency found the median gap in starting salaries for graduates increased from $2000 in 2011 to $5000 last year.

The disparity was the largest in architecture and building occupations, at 17.3 per cent. The starting salary for male graduates was $52,000 compared with $43,000 for women.

Female dentistry graduates earned 15.7 per cent or $14,000 less than men whose median starting salary was $92,000.

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The starting salary for female law graduates was $50,700 compared with $55,000 for men.

The agency's research executive manager, Carla Harris, said there was no adequate explanation for the difference. ''There's absolutely no logical reason why a male graduate would be seen as better than a female graduate.''

Dr Harris said all businesses should review their starting salaries to ensure they were fair. ''We need to fix the culture and embedded discrimination within our companies.''

An associate professor in architecture and design at RMIT, Esther Charlesworth, said architecture had traditionally been a ''pretty blokey profession''.

''There is a perception that male architecture graduates are more useful because they can be on site dealing with contractors,'' she said.

Dr Charlesworth, who finished her degree in 1989, said most of the women she graduated with were no longer practising architects. She said architecture had since become more welcoming for women but men still occupied the top positions at large firms.

An associate professor in management at Monash University, Anne Bardoel, said graduates should be recognised for their work rather than gender. ''If somebody is actually doing the work, whether they're male or female, they should be getting the same pay,'' she said.

Professor Bardoel said the findings were surprising given that female students often outperformed their male peers.

Monica Hope, who finished her law studies in 2011, said disparity in pay had never been an issue she had considered. She began working as a junior lawyer last July and had never experienced any gender gap in her pay.

''I've never been noticeably faced with any inconsistency at all,'' she said. ''I really haven't felt that pay rates for men and women has been a consideration.''

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/tertiary-education/gender-pay-gap-doubles-in-a-year-20130103-2c78q.ht...

[cat_mioux]

I hope we hear from architects and dentists in this thread.

Could all female architects and dentists with an opinion please post?

🙂

[i-need-a-martini]

I work in an architectural firm and it is absolutely spot on for my industry. I started on a really low salary but when I found out what the boys were getting, I had to jump and up yell to get my salary on an equal footing.

And as I've mentioned before, even though I am the senior designer with them it makes not a spot of difference - when I enter a work site I get wolf whistled & lewd comments yelled across sites.

In meetings I am treated like the note taker and the members speak to my subordinates instead of me EVEN when I have called the meeting. They often snigger at what I have to say and I get called a 'b' when I tell them exactly what I think of the behaviour.

And I am not talking about uncouth builders or tradies here - I am talking about engineers, project managers, certifiers etc. These people are well educated and should know better.

[cat_mioux]

I work in an architectural firm and it is absolutely spot on for my industry. I started on a really low salary but when I found out what the boys were getting, I had to jump and up yell to get my salary on an equal footing.

And as I've mentioned before, even though I am the senior designer with them it makes not a spot of difference - when I enter a work site I get wolf whistled & lewd comments yelled across sites.

In meetings I am treated like the note taker and the members speak to my subordinates instead of me EVEN when I have called the meeting. They often snigger at what I have to say and I get called a 'b' when I tell them exactly what I think of the behaviour.

And I am not talking about uncouth builders or tradies here - I am talking about engineers, project managers, certifiers etc. These people are well educated and should know better.

That is quite shocking to me! Usually the places I work at takes sexual discrimination/harassment very seriously.

[i-need-a-martini]

But the problem is that it isn't a workplace thing, it is an industry by industry problem. I am sure all of those companies where these men work have very strict discrimination rules for WITHIN their company but those rules are not applied outside when they are in a 'pack'.

The interesting thing about some industries, like architecture, is that there are many more women studying the courses than men (in architecture the ratio tipped to women a couple of years ago and is now hovering at 65% women). And the women regularly top the course, yet the ratio of women to men that find graduate jobs is seriously low. Firms would prefer to take a dunce male than a female honours student.

There was a study done about 4 years ago that surveyed graduates and found that only 25% of women were still employed in the industry 5 years after graduation. That compared to about 70% (off the top of my head) of men.

As the study said, this appears to be the worst industry but I am sure the stats are similar for other areas like dentistry and law.

[freakiness]

I read some comments about this on the sunrise facebook page. That was an eye opener to just how dumb and sexist Aussies are. Women and men, the comments were stupid. They can't even grasp the topic before they comment, or mouth off.

[*crikey*mate*]

Compensation is discriminatory too.

(I don't know exact figures and they're in a folder all the way over there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>)

But for example:

If a fault based accident occurrs and you lose your entire thumb below the 2nd knuckle you get $15,000 (male or female)

But a male "organ" is worth $15,000. whereas a female "organ" is worth $5,000

Our current compensation system is also geared towards males as the majority of places that women are injured (ie in  the home) are not compensated for.

The Hospitality industry used to be very sexist - 10 years ago anyway, not sure about now. It was a male dominated arena.

[*crikey*mate*]

But the problem is that it isn't a workplace thing, it is an industry by industry problem. I am sure all of those companies where these men work have very strict discrimination rules for WITHIN their company but those rules are not applied outside when they are in a 'pack'.

The interesting thing about some industries, like architecture, is that there are many more women studying the courses than men (in architecture the ratio tipped to women a couple of years ago and is now hovering at 65% women). And the women regularly top the course, yet the ratio of women to men that find graduate jobs is seriously low. Firms would prefer to take a dunce male than a female honours student.

There was a study done about 4 years ago that surveyed graduates and found that only 25% of women were still employed in the industry 5 years after graduation. That compared to about 70% (off the top of my head) of men.

As the study said, this appears to be the worst industry but I am sure the stats are similar for other areas like dentistry and law.

I think you will find similar in some apprenticeships as well, such as cooking. I know it's n ot a Uni degree, but still required a 4 year apprenticeship to become qualified.

ONE of the reasons for the decline in employment for women after 5 years would possibly be due to childbirth, because even if the attitudes of the males didn't affect a person, it's an incredibly difficult job to juggle once you have children.

Your co-workers generally don't understand you having time off work cos little Jimmy is sick, and are not very compassionate about it as they had to work harder on your sickie.

Also the hours made it very difficult for child care - child care centres operate Mon to Fri 6am to 6pm. I don't think I ever got one shift that fitted within those timeslots because a Chef has to be there for service and most people go out for dinner after 6PM and on weekends...

A solution of course was to hire a Nanny/Housekeeper, but at $500 a week (back then) plus super and holiday pay etc, it sure started to eat into your own pay, and make you wonder what you were working for.

[i-need-a-martini]

ONE of the reasons for the decline in employment for women after 5 years would possibly be due to childbirth, because even if the attitudes of the males didn't affect a person, it's an incredibly difficult job to juggle once you have children.

This was factored in but it was insignificant. Remember that these girls are only 23-24 when they graduate. It wasn't that they had left the workforce, it was simply that they weren't in the industry for which they had trained for 6 years.

One of the main points of the study was the focus on male architects getting their licences. After you have been a graduate for x number of years, your employer usually helps you gain that licence. One part of the study was about how reluctant employers were to give women the time and money to continue on to this next step, whereas for men it was considered a natural progression.

The conclusion being that women get fed up with being treated like permanent undergraduates and leave out of frustration. 

I think law is the same?

[monman12]

INAM here is an excerpt from an old post of mine:-

".......as in life it is generally the female who gets the short end of the stick....."

I have been saying that for years here, and sadly I think it will continue for years.