Telstra cuts

[twinkles**stars]

1100 employees to lose their jobs 😞

[*crikey*mate*]

So my question remains, if The Howard Gov "did such a bad thing", why didn't the next gov do something to fix it?

[i-need-a-martini]

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@crikey*mate wrote:

the outrage needs to be redirected to how many of those "more qualified" Indians received their qualifications through Australian Universities over the last 6 years.

International students provide a LOT of income to Australia - Education is out 3rd biggest export.

I wonder what would happen to that export market if there were no jobs at the end of the degree? 

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I don't understand what you are saying.

Are you saying it is OK to outsource our jobs overseas because we are obliged to offer Indian/Asian students jobs because afterall we have taken their money by giving them a university place here?

[debra9275]

However, it woould also be a good thing for our economy if Australian businesses tried to keep jobs onshore

[*crikey*mate*]

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@i-need-a-martini wrote:

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@crikey*mate wrote:

the outrage needs to be redirected to how many of those "more qualified" Indians received their qualifications through Australian Universities over the last 6 years.

International students provide a LOT of income to Australia - Education is out 3rd biggest export.

I wonder what would happen to that export market if there were no jobs at the end of the degree? 

---

I don't understand what you are saying.

Are you saying it is OK to outsource our jobs overseas because we are obliged to offer Indian/Asian students jobs because afterall we have taken their money by giving them a university place here?

---

No, not because we took their money. But because if they didn't get jobs at the end of their degrees they would stop coming.

BUT, I am not saying this is my opinion or that I agree with it. It's just how the big pic works.

But could you please tell me, if The Howard Gov did such a bad thing, why didn't the next gov do something to fix it?

[debra9275]

Martini, I don't see that Australian companies have any obligation to offer jobs overseas purely because people have chosen to pay and be educated here.

I do know that in the IT industry many jobs are advertised  in countries like India, without even being advertised here. It's just plain wrong IMO

[debra9275]

but what about all the Australian kids with qualifications who can't get jobs because there are none Crikey

shouldn't they be given priority with employment here?

[i-need-a-martini]

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crikey*mate wrote:

Hey! I didn't make education our 3rd biggest export!

No you didn't. We can thank the LIberal Party for that doosey too.

However, our International students are what helps to keep the costs of education down for our own students. 

Umm where do you get that from?? Australian students are paying incredible amounts of money to get an education in our unis. And whilst we accept more international students, there are less places for our own. Even more so after Pyne made his announcement early this week about capping placements again.

Our universities are so ridiculously crowded that the entry requirements for Australians is so ridiculously high that in my last year of teaching, nearly 2/3 of the Australians were full paying students.

So lets say that each year had 200 students. We had a 40% (and rising) target for internationals .2/3rds were full fee paying. That means only 40 Australian students actualy get a placement based on their secondary school resuts. But those places aren't free. For deisgn students (one of the lowest fee courses), that still amounted to $2000-$2500 per course x 5 courses a semester. That's ridiculous.

For every full fee paying International student, it offsets the costs for 6 of our own.

Umm. definitely no.

In the school system, those 6 kids are "free" for the Gov. They don't have to find the money to pay for them.

Free uni? Where?

I wonder what happens to the international students if they are not given places in our uni's?

They would try and get into the LIMITED and much harder to get places offered by the US and UK. Unfortunately we are an easy target for overseas students. When I was teaching, if I ever asked the OS students why they chose UTS, they always sais it was because they couldn't get into equivelent universities and colleges in the US and UK.

My point is that it's all interwoven. We're not self sufficient. We can't be if we hope to compete with the rest of the world.

Very few countries pander to overseas paying students at the expense of their own education. Australia is unique in this regard.

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[*crikey*mate*]

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@debra9275 wrote:

but what about all the Australian kids with qualifications who can't get jobs because there are none Crikey

shouldn't they be given priority with employment here?

---

Deb, what I believe "should" happen is entirely different to how those in power believe a country should be run. It is entirely different to how our countries come up with trade agreements etc.

It doesn't matter what I believe "should" happen, I am running neither Telstra or this country.

But it does make sense that it somehow benefits our country or our leaders would do something to change this. 

So, why aren't they?

It's not about "our kids" anymore, modern technology has erroded the cyber barriers, in that respect we belong to a global community.

It goes both ways though, many Australians are employed by overseas employers.

[i-need-a-martini]

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@crikey*mate wrote:

---

@i-need-a-martini wrote:

---

@crikey*mate wrote:

the outrage needs to be redirected to how many of those "more qualified" Indians received their qualifications through Australian Universities over the last 6 years.

International students provide a LOT of income to Australia - Education is out 3rd biggest export.

I wonder what would happen to that export market if there were no jobs at the end of the degree? 

---

I don't understand what you are saying.

Are you saying it is OK to outsource our jobs overseas because we are obliged to offer Indian/Asian students jobs because afterall we have taken their money by giving them a university place here?

---

No, not because we took their money. But because if they didn't get jobs at the end of their degrees they would stop coming.

BUT, I am not saying this is my opinion or that I agree with it. It's just how the big pic works.

But could you please tell me, if The Howard Gov did such a bad thing, why didn't the next gov do something to fix it?

---

How do you roll something as big as this back??

The attempts at some level of roll back that that government has done  - like uncapping places in order to get more Aussies in unis - has just been halted by Pyne this week.

[debra9275]

yes both my kids have HECS fees to pay for their uni education, it's certainly not free or cheap and you're right about the semester fees Martini