on 25-08-2014 09:12 AM
Truth overboard at Gillian Triggs’ inquiry on children in detention
Well done to Scott Morrison he ripper her and made her look stupid and a liar and this inquiry a political witch hunt
Well done to Immigration Department secretary Martin Bowles as well as he put her in her place after the blatant LIES she told...
Worth watching the video and Gillian Triggs squirm when she is exposed as a liar
THE Human Rights Commission president must resign after turning her inquiry on children in detention into a political witch-hunt last week.
Gillian Triggs’ behaviour was unforgivable for someone with semi-judicial powers, able to force witnesses to appear under threat of jail.
We cannot have the head of an inquiry showing such bias, heckling witnesses and making false and emotive claims from the bench to make the Christmas Island detention centre seem a hellhole.
Nor can we have an inquiry head giving media interviews attacking witnesses and summing up the issues before hearing all the evidence.
We also cannot have an inquiry head refusing to correct explosive claims about suicide attempts in detention when they’ve been debunked.
It is now impossible to have confidence in Triggs’ impartiality.
In fact, it’s hard not to suspect her inquiry is designed to reach a prejudged conclusion — to damn the Abbott Government’s successful border laws.
The very fact that Triggs, a law academic, called this taxpayer-funded inquiry is highly suspect.
The last time her commission looked into this issue was 2004 — which, what a surprise, was when the Howard government was stopping the boats, too.
No further inquiry was held in the seven years of Labor’s Rudd and Gillard governments, during which the border laws were weakened, luring more than 1200 men, women and children to their deaths and filling detention centres to bursting.
No, Triggs, appointed by Labor in 2012, waited until another Liberal government was back in power, stopping the boats and emptying the detention centres.
Sev Ozdowski, the former human rights commissioner responsible for the 2004 inquiry, calls this timing “very odd”.
“When the boats were arriving in large numbers and Labor was at its peak of cruelty towards the boat arrivals, (the commission) almost did not see the problem.”
But Triggs is now on the case, seemingly filled with a righteous anger at the Abbott Government, even though the boats have now stopped and the number of children in detention more than halved.
Last month, for instance, she claimed “we’ve had reports that have been confirmed during the day that 10 women have attempted suicide” on Christmas Island.
False. There has been only one case of self-harm by a woman that could with any credibility be described as “attempted suicide”. And, no, Madam President, sipping some shampoo does not qualify.
Triggs also claimed last month she’d visited the detained children on Christmas Island and “almost all of them, including the adults, were coughing, were sick, were depressed, unable to communicate (and) weak”, which made her want to ask: “What’s going on? Why is this child not being treated?”
False again. Sick children are indeed being treated and the Government hotly disputes Triggs’ claim that almost every detained child on Christmas Island is sick.
Told this, Triggs — with her inquiry still to hear from Immigration Minister Scott Morrison — gave another media interview rebuking Morrison as needing “to be better advised”, and insisting “all children should be removed from the detention centres and placed in the community”.
Er, isn’t that the very thing the inquiry is meant to determine at the end of the hearings, and not near the start? Should an inquiry head really be attacking witnesses even before they’ve given their evidence?
But if all that was bad, last week was a disgrace.
Morrison appeared before her inquiry and Triggs flew for his throat: “How can you justify detaining children in these conditions for more than a year when there is no evidence that this is the policy that is stopping the boats but rather Operation Sovereign Borders, however you define it, with three-star generals or civilian authorities, whatever name you put to it, the reality is that physical force and power have stopped these boats?”
Not biased? Triggs?
On it went.
Triggs insisted “the people on Christmas Island are being detained in a prison effectively” because on her three visits she had noticed “you cannot get into any of the sections without going through armed guards”.
That infuriated the Immigration Department secretary Martin Bowles, who protested at Triggs’ “emotive statements”.
“It is not fair to characterise the detention system as a jail,” he said, and Triggs should correct a falsehood.
“We do not have armed guards, President. I would like you to acknowledge that.”
Triggs would not, despite being repeatedly challenged on her “facts”.
But if the head of an inquiry can see armed guards where there are none, and a prison where there are only pool fences, what else is she imagining about what she’s supposed to impartially judge?
No, Triggs must resign. She is meant to confront injustice, not commit it.
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on 28-08-2014 01:12 PM
Seeing she based her view on the Detention centres being effectively prisons because they are guarded by armed guards, her argument was flawed.
Why does her believing that the guards she saw wre armed make her assertion flawed. Is a prison only a prsion if the guards are armed?
28-08-2014 01:13 PM - edited 28-08-2014 01:15 PM
julia wrote:
so you dont believe having armed guards in our immi
detention centres is a real issue. OK. I never said that.
i disagree. it is real it was raised during the inquiry by the president.
it needed to be addressed. .. by Daily Telegraphs sensationalised howls, repeated here by sheep.
we'll have to agree to disagree.
cos we're going around in circles.
Everyone here is going around in circles.
This issue was blown up by the Daily Telegraph/ LNP supporters to deflect from the big picture.
National Inquiry into Children in Immigration Detention
This is a paper prepared by Amnesty International for the HREOC Inquiry into children in immigration detention centres. In particular, this paper sets out Amnesty International's concerns with the detention of children, having regard to the international human rights treaties to which Australia has committed itself.
In this submission Amnesty International examines:
1. Amnesty International's concerns with regard to Australia's obligations under the Convention on the Rights of the Child
2. Specific health concerns
3. Specific educational concerns
4. Mandatory detention
5. Case studies highlighting our concerns
6. Provisions for release from detention
7. Alternatives to detention
Happy to agree to disagree.
on 28-08-2014 01:26 PM
The lie accusation was about her statement that she'd visited a detention centre and had to go through armed guard to get to each section.
For some reason she felt it was important to mention there
were armed guards at every section and for some reason the
people who run the centre felt it was important to say it was not true.
why is it so difficult for some to see this from both perspectives.
weird.
on 28-08-2014 01:44 PM
@icyfroth wrote:
@i-need-a-martini wrote:Not all prisons are maximum security icy. In fact most prisons are not and generally many inmates of prisons that are not maximum secrity have a freedom that those in our detention centres do not.
I should also point out that we don't actually call them prisons in Australia. They are called correction centres or facilities. The people in these correction centres are imprisoned whilst they await trial or they have been committed to time as punishment for crimes.
I should also point out that we do not imprison CHILDREN in any correctional facility, low or high security. Unless they are the child of an asylum seeker or an orphan travelling alone on an asylum seeking vessel.
Don't you think the last point is an issue?
Thank you for explaining the difference between a Correctional Centre and a Detention Centre. In doing so you've answered your own question.
Maybe Ms Triggs doesn't realise the difference between a Prison and a Correctional Facility? Actually, in Aus we used to call them gaols before we called them Correctional Facilities.
With regard to children in detention centres, which you incorrectly called correctional facilities. Would you have them seperated from their parents? I suppose you'd like to add a charge of stealing children onto the PM as well?
And as was pointed out in another post, less children are being held under this government than the previous, with more to be released in the near future.
Actually no we do not call them gaols in this country. They are called Correctional Facilities. The word 'gaol' or 'prison' is simple the terms used for anyone who is kept in a facilitiy that they cannot leave.
I wasn't referring to children in Detention centres. I was making the point that in Australia we do not keep children imprisoned in Correctional Facilities. And yet, we seem to think it is OK to keep children imprisoned in Detention Centres.
Which of course is the whole reason we are having an inquiry.
on 28-08-2014 01:46 PM
so did the transcript from matilda contain any errors ?
on 28-08-2014 01:47 PM
@*julia*2010 wrote:The lie accusation was about her statement that she'd visited a detention centre and had to go through armed guard to get to each section.
For some reason she felt it was important to mention there
were armed guards at every section and for some reason the
people who run the centre felt it was important to say it was not true.
why is it so difficult for some to see this from both perspectives.
weird.
There are two separate issues here.
1) whether or not a detention Centre effectively a prison.
2) Whether or not there were armed guards on duty at the centres visited by Ms Triggs. (I don't think anyone is disputng there) were guards.
If (2) is incorrect, does it follow that (1) must also be incorrect.?
on 28-08-2014 01:56 PM
@*julia*2010 wrote:so did the transcript from matilda contain any errors ?
No errors but no context either.
Your post made it sound as if she had no answers to provide and was at a loss for words. However, if you listen to the tape you would know that at this point she had both Bowles and Morrison laughing and interrupting her and not allowing her to speak. Their actions were very deliberate. They asked her questions and made accusations and put words in her mouth but were not giving her the opportunity to refute or deliberate.
The "umming" and "ahhing" by Triggs was happening between sentences where she had no choice but to pause because both men were talking over the top of her.
The "umming" and "ahhing" by Triggs did not occurr because she had no idea what to say.
on 28-08-2014 01:58 PM
@icyfroth wrote:1. You may believe it is correct, but believing does not make it so. Detention facilities are not correctional facilities, as Martini kindly pointed out.
You are imagining that I said that by reading something between the lines that doesn't exist.
I said that both Correctional Facilities and Detention Centres imprison people.
on 28-08-2014 02:42 PM
@i-need-a-martini wrote:
@icyfroth wrote:
@i-need-a-martini wrote:Not all prisons are maximum security icy. In fact most prisons are not and generally many inmates of prisons that are not maximum secrity have a freedom that those in our detention centres do not.
I should also point out that we don't actually call them prisons in Australia. They are called correction centres or facilities. The people in these correction centres are imprisoned whilst they await trial or they have been committed to time as punishment for crimes.
I should also point out that we do not imprison CHILDREN in any correctional facility, low or high security. Unless they are the child of an asylum seeker or an orphan travelling alone on an asylum seeking vessel.
Don't you think the last point is an issue?
Thank you for explaining the difference between a Correctional Centre and a Detention Centre. In doing so you've answered your own question.
Maybe Ms Triggs doesn't realise the difference between a Prison and a Correctional Facility? Actually, in Aus we used to call them gaols before we called them Correctional Facilities.
With regard to children in detention centres, which you incorrectly called correctional facilities. Would you have them seperated from their parents? I suppose you'd like to add a charge of stealing children onto the PM as well?
And as was pointed out in another post, less children are being held under this government than the previous, with more to be released in the near future.
Actually no we do not call them gaols in this country.
Read what I actually said: "in Aus we used to call them gaols before we called them Correctional Facilities."
They are called Correctional Facilities. The word 'gaol' or 'prison' is simple the terms used for anyone who is kept in a facilitiy that they cannot leave.
I wasn't referring to children in Detention centres. I was making the point that in Australia we do not keep children imprisoned in Correctional Facilities. And yet, we seem to think it is OK to keep children imprisoned in Detention Centres.
We don't "keep" the children in detention centres. We keep the adults they're travelling with who attempt to enter the country without the appropriate travel documents. We assume these adults are their parents. Would you put these children through further trauma by seperating them from their parents?
If children are travelling alone they need to be kept in the centres firstly to ascertain their identity and why they are travelling alone. Also to protect them from predatory approaches by unrelated adults.
Which of course is the whole reason we are having an inquiry.
ppl running such inquiries do not help by making unverified statements.
on 28-08-2014 02:47 PM
@i-need-a-martini wrote:
@icyfroth wrote:1. You may believe it is correct, but believing does not make it so. Detention facilities are not correctional facilities, as Martini kindly pointed out.
You are imagining that I said that by reading something between the lines that doesn't exist.
I said that both Correctional Facilities and Detention Centres imprison people.
Correctional facilities imprison ppl until they have (hopefully) corrected their criminal attitudes and served out the time of their penalty for crimes perpetrated.
Detention centres are to detain ppl until such time as they are cleared for further travel to their destination.