Virgin Airlines ? any ideas ?

[rogespeed]

Keeping in mind:

Virgin Airlines is basically worthless as per the market price of the holding company that owns it:  Virgin Australia Holdings LTD

 share price is less than 1 cent ,

compared with Qantas being valued 355x more at $3.55 per share 

What about dividends ? none paid , appears never has. 

Also a major share holder HNA Group (19.82%)  is being nationalised by "CHINA INC" who have the expressed  objective of selling all airline assets which would include Virgin Australia Holdings 

Somewhat shakey some might say.

so what about worthiness of support , the history ?

Questions of interest .. how did a new airline establish itself after a pioneering Australian airline company on home ground  ( Ansett Airways/ Ansett Australia) fail dismally ? 

A solution that will placate everyone and result in financially viable trading for all airlines based here is in everyones interest.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_Australia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_Australia_Holdings

https://www.bing.com/search?q=Virgin+Australia+holdings+LTD&FORM=ANCMS9&PC=U531

https://www.bing.com/search?q=qantas+shares&FORM=AWRE

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-19/china-said-to-near-takeover-of-hna-group-as-virus...

[rogespeed]

---

@eol-products wrote:

Other airlines got invloved and from what I have read personal egos of those running them. Whatever Virgin would do Qantas would try and one up them. At one point they had a capacity war which gave us cheap seats but cost each of them millions a day. I think this ended in 2014.

---

Is a vexing issue - how to enshrine competition without continued dramas - is it not reasonable a fair price and stability relative to what is possible in our national environment  ?

[rogespeed]

Anyhow QLD Govt is offering a cool  $200,000,000 to Virgin Australia , and some Chinese airline companies are expressing interest in a complete purchase 

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/now-the-chinese-are-considering-buying-virgin-australia-aft...

[rogespeed]

---

@domino-710 wrote:

Get it right boys :

There were 4.60 million passengers carried on Australian domestic commercial aviation (including charter operations) in February 2020, a decrease of 2.2 per cent on February 2019. 4.36 million passengers were carried on RPT flights in February 2020, a decrease of 3.0 per cent on February 2019.

We need only - 1 Carrier - hello.

This is Feb 2020.

Bad time for flying.

What about a good time.

---

If earnings are a problem , why not just increase the ticket cost ? A paltry $50 raises an extra 200 million odd 

[rogespeed]

Whats the commercial interest of $4,800,000,000 debt ? How many tickets at the current rates be needed to to be sold to service such debt, and how much ongoing subsidies would the tax buyer need to donate in order to maintain subject company in the air and at what point does this become a chronic way of doing business ? Or is subject company a partially Govt funded charity like the " flying doctor service", afterall subject company does service commercially marginal rural destinations.  

Questions 

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/an-industry-in-crisis-can-australia-afford-to-have-just-one...

As an aside to lift the depressed spirits: 

Australian iconic organisation and essential service

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Flying_Doctor_Service_of_Australia

btw

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/aside

[davewil1964]

---

@rogespeed wrote:

---

@domino-710 wrote:

Get it right boys :

There were 4.60 million passengers carried on Australian domestic commercial aviation (including charter operations) in February 2020, a decrease of 2.2 per cent on February 2019. 4.36 million passengers were carried on RPT flights in February 2020, a decrease of 3.0 per cent on February 2019.

We need only - 1 Carrier - hello.

This is Feb 2020.

Bad time for flying.

What about a good time.

---

If earnings are a problem , why not just increase the ticket cost ? A paltry $50 raises an extra 200 million odd 

---

In a duopoly, or any market really, if one party raises their prices and the other doesn't, there will be no increased revenue (probably decreased revenue), because people won't use the more expensive option.

[rogespeed]

---

@davewil1964 wrote:

---

@rogespeed wrote:

---

@domino-710 wrote:

Get it right boys :

There were 4.60 million passengers carried on Australian domestic commercial aviation (including charter operations) in February 2020, a decrease of 2.2 per cent on February 2019. 4.36 million passengers were carried on RPT flights in February 2020, a decrease of 3.0 per cent on February 2019.

We need only - 1 Carrier - hello.

This is Feb 2020.

Bad time for flying.

What about a good time.

---

If earnings are a problem , why not just increase the ticket cost ? A paltry $50 raises an extra 200 million odd 

---

In a duopoly, or any market really, if one party raises their prices and the other doesn't, there will be no increased revenue (probably decreased revenue), because people won't use the more expensive option.

---

Seems to me commercial duopoly in a free market does not lend it's self to true competition because of the limited market ( or there would be more than two players) - so i suppose both would have to agree to increase the ticket costs , one survives well and the other much better - the customer suffers higher costs but if seems fair , is fair enough.

We just have to face the fact that Australia is a blatant interventionist free-market economy.

The Govt intervenes for order and stability and preservation of heritage ( ie zoning laws)  , and BigBiz centralises with approval due to diminished competition and the need for required profits ( ie white goods / furniture) 

Unfortunately is relative to overseas commercial pressures who have a much larger economy of scale ( ie aircraft manufacturing) and our limited capacity to fund subsidies or our limited resolve to support subsidies ( ie textile industry) 

[chameleon54]

Maybe the Government should simply buy Virgin out for a pittance and use the current downturn to return a few essential institutions to national ownership. If nothing else it would return a bit of family silver to the drawer to sell off again in the future and help pay for the whole Corona virus mess.

Now is there any electricity generators and banks going cheap ?

[rogespeed]

---

@chameleon54 wrote:

Maybe the Government should simply buy Virgin out for a pittance and use the current downturn to return a few essential institutions to national ownership. If nothing else it would return a bit of family silver to the drawer to sell off again in the future and help pay for the whole Corona virus mess.

Now is there any electricity generators and banks going cheap ?

---

I imagine the shareholders will want more than a pittance , as they have lost so much per share and 2 of them have aviation industry reputations to maintain - for a friendly takeover they can demand more than the listed share price

I suspect the company will be assisted for at least the duration of the virus pest, to avoid chaos

but I think Govt QUANGO"S in Australia have fallen out of favour due to the privatisation crusade so  i can not imagine the P.S. operating an Airline all by themselves.

Virgin Blue/Virgin Australia Airlines  have proved in the past that they can financially perform very well , so they have potential 

See what happens during the current or offered donations $365.000.000 ( $14 per citizen) will effect , and seems some Chinese aviation conerns are interested as well .

[davewil1964]

Virgin Blue/Virgin Australia Airlines  have proved in the past that they can financially perform very well , so they have potential 

When? Where? Hard evidence? Like have they ever paid any tax? No, because they run at a loss. Not a smart business model.

[eol-products]

Unfortunatley you are incorrect Virgin Blue was very profitable.I beleive they may have made more money some years than Qantas.This is from an old news article.

"It is worth noting that on a much smaller equity base Virgin Blue, as it was then, had pre-tax earnings of $309 million in 2007-08, ahead of the financial crisis. Even including the $226 million loss incurred during the GFC, under Brett Godfrey Virgin it generated more than $1 billion of earnings."