What Do We Have To Do To Please Indonesia?

[icyfroth]

WHAT have we got to do to please Indonesia? Or is the truth that when it's over it's over and in this relationship, there's nothing that we can ever do right?

Even when we're sorry, it's not enough.

When we're generous, we need to try harder.

When we're within our rights, we're wrong.

Don't know about you, but I sense they've been trying to tell us something for a while.

Perhaps it's about time we listened.

See if there's a pattern here: Hundreds, if not thousands of Indonesian-flagged boats, leaving Indonesian ports, crewed by Indonesians, breaking Indonesian and Australian laws have been wilfully engaged in people smuggling for years.

Apologies? No. Instead we get a lecture. "Australia must do more," says the Indonesian leadership.

So we donate aircraft and navy patrol boats to help fix the problem.

It turns out they're not good enough for the task - but they can be deployed elsewhere to deal with things more important to Indonesia.

The people smuggler boats keep coming. Any apology yet? No, just a bit of friendly advice: "Take the sugar off the table" - this time from the Indonesian President.

Point taken - but the "people-smuggling trade'' still happens right under your nose, Mr President. "We're doing our best," he says. "But Australia must try harder."

Have some more borrowed Australian dollars in aid for your country as well. It's now over half a billion ... but we can do better next year. How does $600 million sound?

"Just a moment ... the ABC says you've been spying on us." Quick, recall the ambassador and downgrade the friendship status.

Does Indonesia spy on Australia? "Once we did, but now we can't confirm nor deny - but how dare you!"

Then on Friday, Immigration Minister Scott Morrison issues a grovelling apology for Australian patrol boats accidentally straying into Indonesian waters.

The response was never going to be hugs and kisses - but any points for honesty? "Not good enough, Australia," came the response.

Did we get sprung on the wrong side of the line? No. Australia fronted up and admitted the mistake. And just quietly, our navy was out there dealing with the problem Indonesia itself seems incapable of fixing.

The neighbour is furious again. "Indonesia deplores and rejects the violation ... this is a very serious matter.

"Indonesia rejects the 'turn back boats' policy and wants the whole operation to cease."

What have you got to do to please these people? Australia is not without its faults but there seems to be no end in trying to smooth things over.

Our great neighbour seems determined to always send back the single-finger salute.

So now there's tension and action. The Indonesian Navy is rushing to the scene. For five years they've been "too busy" and "too under resourced" to stop the boats but now they'll try to stop Australia stopping the boats.

Friendly Australia is getting the unfriendly treatment and suddenly there's the prospect of the two countries staring each other down at sea.

But for every downside, there's a benefit. Perhaps the presence of the Indonesian Navy, with its notorious no-fuss attitude, might go some way towards really stopping the boats.

You can't imagine the crooks are going to risk leaving people-smuggler ports while there's a chance of bumping into the local boys on a mission, 12 nautical miles out. It's a strange way to get your way, but this is what Australia needed years ago. Finally, Indonesia gives a **bleep**.

Diplomacy is hard enough when you're dealing with an easily upset big bully - until the Greens join in and want a piece of the arm wrestle. And as usual, they're not on Australia's side.

Operation Sovereign Borders is only happening because it was the will of the voters at the last election. I know democracy matters little when you're a world- renowned expert on everything, like Senator Sarah Hanson-Young. Perhaps she should be on commission from Jakarta because she's saying all the things they wouldn't dare.

Many in this country are sick and tired of the one-way street with Indonesia. There is seemingly no pleasing them unless it's everything they want and how they want it.

Link To Article

I think this article reflects the view of many Australians.

[lyndal1838]

Australia has been trying to appease the Indonesians for over 50 years now....I can't see it ever happening in my lifetime.

I was heavily involved with Indonesian students in the 1960s and kept in touch with many of them when they went back home.  Many of them were "professional students", getting several degrees because they did not want to go home.  When they went back they had to work for the government for many years to "repay" the generosity of the government in allowing them to come here for an education....even though many of them were actually paying for their own education (from wealthy families)

And they were treated very badly when they went home for daring to study in Australia, and associate with the infidels.

I can't see that much has changed in the 50 years since then.

Indonesia as a country is happy to be given billions of our dollars without any thought of accountability or maybe saying thankyou.

[topsidesoul]

If your opinion in any smalled way  favours indonesia or believes we may have had a hand in this relationship not working out ..... you automatically do not care about your country  or like australia and infact hate Australia.

I learnt that one reading the numorous boat people posts.

Calling someone out as being un australian will bring their opinion into line.

So Indonesia is to blame for everything!

They should buy us some roses and take us out to dinner to say sorry!

[poddster]

What Do We Have To Do To Please Indonesia?

Give them the whole of Australia and migrate to Antarctica, that might do it

[joz*garage]

---

@poddster wrote:

What Do We Have To Do To Please Indonesia?

Give them the whole of Australia and migrate to Antarctica, that might do it

---

i dunno, they'd expect us to ship large blocks of ice to feed the water supply, given that theres 250 million indonesian people - not enough water in oz to sustain them 

[poddster]

Joz, every cloud has a silver lining 😉

[kengillard]

Sometimes I think Old Age is a wonderful thing

[poddster]

I'll let you know when i get to that stage Gill 🙂

[cherry*135]

Australia may avoid legal action with swift apology for Indonesia breach: law experts

17 Jan

The Abbott government has almost certainly breached the international Law of the Sea convention by "inadvertently" entering Indonesian waters during asylum seeker operations, legal experts say.

"So when it comes to this example, I think it would be difficult for Australia to say it was innocent passage," Dr Stephens said. 

But experts agree it is highly unlikely Indonesia will take legal action given the Abbott government's swift admission and "unqualified apology" for the wrongdoing and promise to conduct a review into how the breach occurred.

While Immigration Minister Scott Morrison will not say exactly what the Australian navy or border protection boat or boats were doing when they sailed into Indonesian waters, it is suspected they were either towing asylum seeker boats back to Indonesia or patrolling the ocean for asylum boats.

If either of these scenarios is true, Australia is in breach of the Law of the Sea, and could be susceptible to legal action if the Indonesian government decided to pursue it.

"You can't enter the territorial sea of another state unless you have that state's permission or if you're exercising something called innocent passage," said Tim Stephens, associate professor of international law at the University of Sydney.

Innocent passage allows boats to move through a territorial sea if they are doing so purely for navigation.

"So when it comes to this example, I think it would be difficult for Australia to say it was innocent passage," Dr Stephens said.

"Sure it's inadvertent but it's very unusual for a government vessel to move within the territorial sea of another state when conducting an operation of this character without notifying that state or getting that state's permission."

If the Indonesian government so desired, it could take Australia to the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea, to complain that Australia had breached Article 19 which relates to innocent passage, Dr Stephens said.

But neither Dr Stephens nor Don Rothwell, a professor of international law at the Australian National University, think it likely the Indonesian government will push the matter this far.

Given Mr Morrison, Operation Sovereign Borders Commander Angus Campbell, and Foreign Affairs Minister Julie Bishop, have all apologised unreservedly for what occurred and have initiated an inquiry, the matter will probably be resolved diplomatically, Professor Rothwell suggested.

"The likelihood of whether Indonesia would take such legal action in my view is fairly remote,'' he said.

"It's very rare in international affairs that a country would seek to take legal action based on what, on face value, would appear to be a minor incursion."

Still, Australia's violation of Indonesia's sovereignty is likely to exacerbate tensions in the already stressed relationship between the two neighbouring countries, said Dave McRae, research fellow in the East Asia Program at the Lowy Institute.

"An Australian vessel entering Indonesian waters, even unintentionally, is certainly the sort of occurrence that has the potential to provoke a strong response from Indonesia," Dr McRae said.

"Even if the Indonesian government were inclined to take a muted stance, their hand could be forced if there is significant public criticism.

"The broader point is that people smuggling should not be the focus of Australia's relations with Indonesia.

"So in choosing measures to address asylum seekers and people smuggling the government needs to take heed of the potential consequences for the broader relationship.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/australia-may-avoid-legal-action-with-swift-ap...

[monman12]

I think we should remember that presidential and  "house of representatives"  elections are due fairly soon in Indonesia, so a lot of the political foreign policy rhetoric is for  local consumption and populist  in  nature.

Remember  Poor Me and her 457 Visa rant?  a very good  combination of populism and xenophobism designed for domestic consumption.

[the_hawk*]

and what would the consequences for the broader relationship be?,

we stop bowing to them, we stop giving them aid, we stop supplying them with military training, we stop selling them arms and equipment and boats and leave them to it, all sounds like a good outcome to me.