What do you consider "Victim Blaming"?

[the_bob_delusion]

Is telling girls not to drink excessively or not to dress too scantily to avoid being vulnerable targets to predators/opportunist "victim blaming"?

[not_for_sale2025]

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@the_bob_delusion wrote:

Elephant ASSUMES

"Assumption is the mother of all F* ups" 

Actually my point is there're bad people in the world. Stay safe, stay cautious. Don't be a victim. 

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Personally, I think you are making a really important point. There are lots of bad people out there. With that knowledge we should all try hard to be responsible when going out there and not set ourselves up to be the victims of bad people. But we see "responsibility" differently, and some people view different rules for males and females. However you look at it tho, we don't set the rules for the bad people. They choose their targets by their rules!

[lionrose.7]

Telling me to Chill woman is so Misogynistic Bob which just shows what you are, dont mansplain me, little man 🙂

[lalbo-81]

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@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

Bob wrote; Do you tell your girls not to get drunk? Would you feel comfortable if your daughter went out exposing her boobs or body in a pub? Ask yourself why

This assumes that grls are sexually abused because they are either drunk, scantilly dressed or provocative.  

This is basically untrue.

Yes, some girls are attacked because they are too drunk to 'say no' and their attacker assumes (or pretends to assume) that that means they must 'want it' but very often it  happens simply because a girl happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Rapists are not turned on by how much their victim has drunk or what she is, or isn't wearing.  All that matters to them  is that she is there and they want her.

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And in my eyes, and the eyes of many in the mental health profession, what they want really isn't sex, it's control. They want the power that comes with knowing they have dominated a woman of any age. Rape doesn't just happen to young pretty women, it happens to old women too. In their homes, in nursing homes, in parking lots, everywhere a young woman could be raped too. 

  You're right, the reality is that it has nothing to do with what a woman wears, or drinks, or how she acts. It's all about power. And the men who commit these crimes do it to men too, in some cases. And I believe that women do it as well, but men don't report their own rapes most of the time. I wish they would. 

[lalbo-81]

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@the_bob_delusion wrote:

Elephant ASSUMES

"Assumption is the mother of all F* ups" 

Actually my point is there're bad people in the world. Stay safe, stay cautious. Don't be a victim. 

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I don't believe that that is what you're saying at all, Bob. YOU are trying to control women too. Admit and get real. If you don't like how a woman dresses, or how much she drinks, or that she likes to flirt, that is YOUR problem, not hers. YOU are the man who controls what YOU do, and how YOU act. No one gets to control another's actions, not ever. It's sick to think you can.

[twyngwyn]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/articles/201805/the-stealthiest-predator

[countessalmirena]

My reply to the question "What do you consider 'Victim Blaming'?"

Victim blaming - in my opinion - is arguing mitigation or complete abrogation of blame on the part of the abuser because the victim's behaviour excuses the abuse.

Examples of such victim blaming:

Tom comes home after working hard in the office. He expects the house to be clean and tidy to his specifications. His wife Sarah has not folded the towels in the right way (the way that he told her was the "right way"). He is incensed; he's explained this to his wife many times. His voice drops to the tone that she dreads, and the tension in the air is almost tangible. He slaps her and she is pushed against the edge of the stove. Again, he hits her; will she never learn? he rages. He's explained it and explained it; he's been patient. He works long hours. The least she can do is keep the b*^@(y house clean! Why does she provoke him like this? Pushing and pushing until he loses it - deliberately! It's her fault. The black eye is her fault. He wouldn't have given her a little tap if she hadn't been so deliberately wilful and defiant in ignoring the house rules.

That's one (unfortunately common) example of victim blaming.

My view on provocative behaviour doesn't focus on whether it means a person deserves to be raped/abused/hit/murdered. It's more about lowering foreseeable risk and also being fair in my dealings with other people. I do not think it fair or honourable to lead someone to think I am the sexual equivalent of a quick drive-though or takeaway (because I'm not). I don't send texts with photos of myself posing on a scallop shell à la the Birth of Venus. I don't like the sensation of being drunk; I don't want to soak my ability to reason and make judgements in gin. And so on. That's my view.

That's the sort of stuff reserved, in my opinion, for mi media naranja.

I don't think I would - under any circumstances - beat up someone else. Perhaps if I stretched my imagination far enough... if it came about that someone I loved was tortured or murdered and there was no way to get legal justice, I might put my mind to - no. I would act to defend, but in the aftermath of something, it would be grief that consumed me, not violent fist-pounding fury that would leave me feeling sick with myself.

[the_great_she_elephant]

countessalmirena wrote:  I do not think it fair or honourable to lead someone to think I am the sexual equivalent of a quick drive-though or takeaway (because I'm not).

But what actually constitutes 'leading on'.  If a woman wears a low cut short skirted dress, gets drunk in the pub and passes out on the floor is she leading the men on to think she is 'the sexual equivalent of a quick drive-though or takeaway'

If a man who has just had a win on the horses shouts for everyone in the bar then gets drunk and passes out on the floor, is he leading others on to think he is inviting them to help themselves to the contents of his wallet?

[the_bob_delusion]

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@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

countessalmirena wrote:  I do not think it fair or honourable to lead someone to think I am the sexual equivalent of a quick drive-though or takeaway (because I'm not).

But what actually constitutes 'leading on'.  If a woman wears a low cut short skirted dress, gets drunk in the pub and passes out on the floor is she leading the men on to think she is 'the sexual equivalent of a quick drive-though or takeaway'

If a man who has just had a win on the horses shouts for everyone in the bar then gets drunk and passes out on the floor, is he leading others on to think he is inviting them to help themselves to the contents of his wallet?

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You're helping me make my point. He isn't inviting them to help themselves but he is making himself vulnerable to those bad people that'll take advantage of his drunken state. This is exactly what happens a lot to tourist in Bali or Thailand. Tourist gets blind drunk, their belonging (phones and purse) go bye bye. It's the same logic you don't wear your Rolex or take your Chanel bag and walk down a dark alley. 

[domino-710]

LOL - you just lost your point.

A Rolex or Chanel - in Bail or Thailand.

Those badies probably sold it to you.

Not worth - the ' advantage '.

[countessalmirena]

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@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

But what actually constitutes 'leading on'.  If a woman wears a low cut short skirted dress, gets drunk in the pub and passes out on the floor is she leading the men on to think she is 'the sexual equivalent of a quick drive-though or takeaway'

If a man who has just had a win on the horses shouts for everyone in the bar then gets drunk and passes out on the floor, is he leading others on to think he is inviting them to help themselves to the contents of his wallet?

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Getting drunk in a pub makes anyone, man or woman, vulnerable. I don't know that it has anything to do with sending a sexual message.