on 19-03-2015 09:05 PM
People post news clips as fact but others disagree depending on who owns the paper
People quote TV and the "facts" are argued because media is bias
People post you tube videos and people argue its not fact
So, what does make a fact, a fact? How does it go from an opinion to an absolute fact?
on 19-03-2015 10:52 PM
@chuk_77 wrote:interesting. So when people ask for the facts here, they can all be argued as not fact depending where your opinion lies?
I dunno. Would it be a fact that this fella is stupid? I think most people would form the opinion that he is. There's not much to dispute about that. So does that make it fact?
on 19-03-2015 10:53 PM
@i-need-a-martini wrote:Another good example of how people make assumption about percieved facts is the Welfare Reform thread.
The OP links to a Daily Telegraph article from a couple of days ago that makes some claims about jobless families. The article lists some statistics but doesn't reveal the source. Looks genuine enough though and I am sure the article will be copied time and time again now that welfare reform is on the federal govts agenda.
Took me a while but I found the source that the Daily Telegraph failed to mention - it is a report from 2009 that was tabled in Parliament back then. THe research was conducted by Peter Whiteford who has written fairly extensively about the need to cut welfare and is currently a consultant to the government on welfare 'reform'.
However, the statistics reported in the paper are not 100% true.
The statistic that 12% of children under 14 are growing up in jobless households is sort of true. However, many of those households intervieweed were single mothers with preschool aged children - a time when it is near impossible for many to work. Also, 15 year old children were categorised as jobless if they didn't have a part time job. So the results are a little bit skewed in my opinion.
He makes a statement like this:
Lone mothers are less likely to be employed than other mothers when their youngest child is below school age, and this is the group who have just experienced the largest drop in employment. This suggests the need to support part-time work amongst parents with pre-school children. But because these parents can receive Parenting Payments and are not required to actively look for work they may be less likely to access labour market support than parents with older children, who to date have been less severely affected by the labour market downturn.
His reforms include dropping Parenting Payments to push mothers with pre-school children into part time work.
He has an agenda. Therefore the results of his study can't be seen as truth.
Yet the Daily Telegraph used his 'facts' as a lead in to a sensationalist story about a family on welfare.
Oh, I'm sorry. They should get a free ride? No strings? Where's the other parent? Not wanting to deal with that isn't a free ride.
on 19-03-2015 10:54 PM
@ufo_investigations wrote:What makes a fact a fact?
Answer = You can believe me. I know everything! No need to question it because I know! LOL 🙂
Is that a fact ?
on 19-03-2015 10:55 PM
Snopes did a very good recent and recent summary about the "leaked" information by Dr William Thompson.
Again, facts have been twisted/ommitted to present an untruth as a fact.
on 19-03-2015 11:00 PM
I think you are getting your threads confused nev.
I am not presenting any opinion on indigenous people or single mothers. That isn't what this thread is about. I am simply using both as EXAMPLES of how facts can be misinterpreted.
If you want to debate either of those issues, start a couple of threads and I will happily join in the debate. But I'm not interested in going off topic on this thread in order to respond sorry.
on 19-03-2015 11:04 PM
No confusion here.
on 19-03-2015 11:08 PM
I can see that tonight is your night for arguing just for the sake of it so I think I will leave you to it.
Goodnight.
on 19-03-2015 11:12 PM
@chuk_77 wrote:interesting. So when people ask for the facts here, they can all be argued as not fact depending where your opinion lies?
Depending on what the issue is. If there are statistics available from a reliable source (e.g. no of people receiving unemployment benefit in the year 201-2014) then quoting those is in a statement is more factual than stating something like - all the xx group of people in area are dole bludgers (which is an opinion).
on 19-03-2015 11:14 PM
@gleee58 wrote:
@chuk_77 wrote:interesting. So when people ask for the facts here, they can all be argued as not fact depending where your opinion lies?
I dunno. Would it be a fact that this fella is stupid? I think most people would form the opinion that he is. There's not much to dispute about that. So does that make it fact?
😞 I dont know about much now 😄 The more I read of peoples opinion of fact the less I know what is fact fiction or figments of imagination hahah
on 19-03-2015 11:14 PM
Okay. Lame.