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icyfroth · ‎27-01-2014

The federal government's planned revival of the work-for-the-dole scheme won't help people into jobs and could take jobs from paid workers, critics say.

But the government says it's more concerned with helping the unemployed learn "soft skills" and getting them job-ready.

Under the coalition's planned work-for-the-dole expansion, Newstart recipients will be forced to complete some tasks which may include rubbish collection, park maintenance and gardening and painting at aged care facilities.

The scheme would be compulsory and anyone who refused would lose their Newstart payment.

"We're looking for ways in which we can create more work-like placements, such as placing jobseekers with organisations (like) local councils, where they could work in a team environment with people on various council activities," Assistant Minister for Employment Luke Hartsuyker told AAP on Monday.

While no date has been fixed, the scheme will be operational in the next financial year.

The government will pay "host" organisations to cover the costs of job requirements like workers compensation, health and safety training or police checks.

The Australian Council of Social Services said it was concerned the scheme would require individuals to work below the minimum wage, based on the Newstart rate of $35 a day.

The Australian Services Union said it could put paid workers out of a job if organisations could get free labour under Newstart.

But Mr Hartsuyker says that won't happen.

The scheme would not displace paid work and paid opportunities, he said.

The opposition has slammed the proposal, saying it could increase the unemployment rate.

Labor MP Andrew Leigh said a Melbourne University study conducted under the Howard government showed the scheme didn't help people into jobs.

"It ended up diverting people from job-search activities into work-for-the-dole activities," he said.

Mr Hartsuyker said the government's focus was on getting people into jobs by teaching them "soft skills".

"It's as simple as turning up to work everyday and being appropriately presented."

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I think it's right that ppl should work for the dole. You?

purple_haize · ‎27-01-2014

Even National Service, that would help them, they would learn a trade and for some they would learn that the world doesnt revolve around them.

poddster · ‎27-01-2014

That might with the inading hoards ...............should that ever eventuate :).

I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

the_great_she_elephant · ‎27-01-2014

Isn't it interesting how everyone instantly assumes that unemployed = young dole bludger.

I doubt whether National Service of cleaning graffiti is going to do much for all those workers who will be thrown out of work when Holden ceases production, or the machinists who lose their jobs every time a clothing manufacturer goes offshore.

azureline** · ‎27-01-2014

It has been tried before.......did it work then?

My concern is, if they do community work, it will reduce the need for employees in some industries.

Example: Nursing Home has volunteers. The days they volunteer, trained staff are reduced. It is not necessary to have 3 staff on the wing if they have 3 volunteers, so they cut back to 1 trained staff member.

spotweldersfriend · ‎27-01-2014

Using half a dozen sheets of Sorbent is a 'soft skill' too but it ain't gonna get you a job.

purple_haize · ‎27-01-2014

@the_great_she_elephant wrote:
Isn't it interesting how everyone instantly assumes that unemployed = young dole bludger.

I doubt whether National Service of cleaning graffiti is going to do much for all those workers who will be thrown out of work when Holden ceases production, or the machinists who lose their jobs every time a clothing manufacturer goes offshore.

I wasnt assuming that the unemployed were young dole bludgers at all.

I know plenty of people in their 30's, 40's right up to 60 yrs. who cannot find workm my brother in law is in his 50's and cant find work.

The national service would be good for the younger ones, they would learn a trade and it would give them something to do, that they could continue when they left the service.

azureline** · ‎27-01-2014

@purple_haize wrote:
@the_great_she_elephant wrote:
Isn't it interesting how everyone instantly assumes that unemployed = young dole bludger.

I doubt whether National Service of cleaning graffiti is going to do much for all those workers who will be thrown out of work when Holden ceases production, or the machinists who lose their jobs every time a clothing manufacturer goes offshore.
I wasnt assuming that the unemployed were young dole bludgers at all.

I know plenty of people in their 30's, 40's right up to 60 yrs. who cannot find workm my brother in law is in his 50's and cant find work.

The national service would be good for the younger ones, they would learn a trade and it would give them something to do, that they could continue when they left the service.

Unfortunately,(or fortunately) the criteria is quite strict and many would not qualify for the armed services, nor be able to handle the training.

purple_haize · ‎27-01-2014

@azureline** wrote:
It has been tried before.......did it work then?
My concern is, if they do community work, it will reduce the need for employees in some industries.
Example: Nursing Home has volunteers. The days they volunteer, trained staff are reduced. It is not necessary to have 3 staff on the wing if they have 3 volunteers, so they cut back to 1 trained staff member.

My daughter is an aged care nurse in a nursing home and they dont have any volunteers there at all.

So, nat. service has been tried before, so, he can be tried again who knows it may work better this time.

My son in law works as a nurse in a repat hospital and they dont have any volunteers there either.

boris1gary · ‎27-01-2014

Will Work For Dole Work?

Reading the op i thought that was actually the question. Getting people "job ready" "soft skills". So it implies that people are unemployed because they lack the required skills all they need is to be "job ready" - ready for what job's exactly. Where are these job's, I have heard rineart bemoan the lack of people willing to work for her in the mining industry - really? Anyone here tried to get a job in the mining industry, sure there are some jobs available here and there - but it's certainly not a case of here i am, ready, willing and able - and now i get a job. A lot of these kind of jobs go to people who are already employed, just changing jobs.

Or are we really saying "if people won't/can't find paid employment they should be forced to do menial tasks so they don't get money for nothing". And by the way the last time our armed services were asked about conscription they answered with a resounding NO THANKS, something about forcing people into our army/navy/airforce didn't really make for high quality armed forces.

Unemployment is not fault of the unemployed. How about for one thing instead of steadily increasing retirement age, we do the opposite and start lowering it. Do we really want to go back to the days when people were literally dropping dead at work, i suppose its OK for those in jobs where you lift nothing heavier than a pencil.

purple_haize · ‎27-01-2014

@azureline** wrote:
@purple_haize wrote:
@the_great_she_elephant wrote:
Isn't it interesting how everyone instantly assumes that unemployed = young dole bludger.

I doubt whether National Service of cleaning graffiti is going to do much for all those workers who will be thrown out of work when Holden ceases production, or the machinists who lose their jobs every time a clothing manufacturer goes offshore.
I wasnt assuming that the unemployed were young dole bludgers at all.

I know plenty of people in their 30's, 40's right up to 60 yrs. who cannot find workm my brother in law is in his 50's and cant find work.

The national service would be good for the younger ones, they would learn a trade and it would give them something to do, that they could continue when they left the service.

Unfortunately,(or fortunately) the criteria is quite strict and many would not qualify for the armed services, nor be able to handle the training.

I know of a couple of guys who did nat. serv. when it was in before and they said it was the best thing they ever did, it taught them respect and they learnt a trade, it was hard, but the did it and survived and they are still in the trade today.