"Religious people are merely Victims. "

[the_bob_delusion]

We need more understanding. Religious people are merely victims of brain-washing and indoctrination. Challenge the idea/doctrine not the people. 

Discuss. 

[lionofjudah60]

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@myoclon1cjerk wrote:
The universe(s) wasn't created from nothing.It's full of 'stuff'.

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from where?

[lionofjudah60]

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@paintsew007 wrote:

Lonely, gullible, unfulfilled people, often after they have lost their lifelong partner the elderly turn to the church/religion later in life because they are afraid of death imo.....trying to fill a void in their lives or trying to get answers to questions about the meaning of life.

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That would have to be one of the most ignorant statements I have ever heard.

[softail-joanie]

I'm not saying everything abut religion is bad. But you have to admit when good people do bad things, it's because of religious beliefs and convictions that goes beyond rationality and reason. People don't just fly planes into buildings unless they truly believe and therefore it's really not a choice. So these people are essentially Victims of religion however they interpret it. 

People don't just fly planes into buildings----- exactly

5 things I need to Convince Me 9/11 was "NOT" an Inside Job

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCgMCw2-aJ0

10 Facts That Prove The Bin Laden Fable Is a Hoax

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfbGXAmtmnc

this had nothing to do with religion, it was about justifying wars and taking freedoms. and it's over to you now Bob, watch the two short videos and address that.

[aps1080]

joanie

I see you you are a 9-11 Sceptic ?

Re "about justifying wars and taking freedoms", I don't dispute that OBL (and 9/11) was a very convenient person to justify the huge expansion of the security industry and military complex.

However, it was religious based although I think it became more than just religion (OBL's attacks on the US).

[the_bob_delusion]

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@lionofjudah60 wrote:

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@myoclon1cjerk wrote:
The universe(s) wasn't created from nothing.It's full of 'stuff'.

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from where?

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If something cannot come from nothing. What's God? Is she something???

If you speak to a quantum physicist, they postulates that quantum can produce everything we see in the Universe from nothing. 
 

[aps1080]

Two interesting comments in that 2nd video.

Why OBL was buried at sea within 24 hours and the UN are child kidnappers and US Gov't shipping drugs around the US !

Very interesting.

CIA has always been involved in drugs and the drug trade !
When you own the airline (Air America and others), anything is possible,
especially if you put National Secutiry above drugs !

[softail-joanie]

joanie . I see you you are a 9-11 Sceptic ? Re "about justifying wars and taking freedoms", I don't dispute that OBL (and 9/11) was a very convenient person to justify the huge expansion of the security industry and military complex. However, it was religious based although I think it became more than just religion (OBL's attacks on the US).

That would be truther, 9/11 truther. Many have their own belief or suspition on what exactly happened, I'm one of those who don't know and wouldn't care to guess. The only thing I'm sure of is that we have been lied to, and I'm sure of the reasons for the lie. But I can't and won't venture to guess. I woke up to it on the news "sunny morning tuesday" and before things even started coming out, i knew eliments of a compartmentalized goverment were up to something.

It's the way things were covered and hidden, investigations prohibited, all the materals shipped away in a hurry, people who came up missing or turned up dead. Bulding #7, that was a major intelegence hub. How a novice pilot couldn't possible fly a plane that size into the pentigon, how they never released footage of the pentigon attack, how Dick Channey ordered NATO to stand down. How they first said it was a missle, then reported it was a plane, how controlled demoletion experts said it looked like explosives set off at the WTC. All these things and more.

If something cannot come from nothing. What's God? Is she something? If you speak to a quantum physicist, they postulates that quantum can produce everything we see in the Universe from nothing. 

I don't know, no one does, not really. But maybe it's not for us to know, not for us to understand, maybe that is for God the all knowing if you choose to believe in God, or a God. It's faith, "FAITH" having this belief so strong, that we don't need to know, maybe that belief even makes it real, for us, I don't know. I do know that to me, it's prefreable than to think we end at death.

Religon exists, it's not paticularly good or bad, it's what we do with it. how many justify things. Theres good and bad in everything. People can take good things and do very bad things with it. It's all in how we use it.

Understand what you can and take the rest on faith is what I do. It's why I watch so many documentarys. I allow for the possibilites, but never know for sure. I take that with me in life and probibly will take that with me in death, God willing.

[aps1080]

joanie

I admit a few holes in the stories "but how Dick Channey ordered NATO to stand down ?"

I think you mean NORAD, not NATO

BTW, it's Cheney

I haven't read enough into this supposed stand down order and what it meant.

Military Aircraft don't have authority to shoot down airliners so what was he standing them down from ?

Standing down from flying and intercepting or from shooting it down ?

A Jet fighter pilot requires a specific order to open fire on a civilian airliner.

I'll have to read more.

[softail-joanie]

Yes it's NORAD, my mistake. They used to have all the Consperacy theroy episodes with Jesse Ventura on youtube, the full episodes, I downloaded them years ago, Now I can't find them again, they probibly banned them as a copyright violation or something. I only found bits and pieces.  If you can find it, watch the pentigon episode.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EI7JLV4peA8 . . . . . . . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpvsiDt1ulc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baUXqQ-OYDU . . . . . . . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NglsA6Ec_dk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXeorKjrmao . . . . . . . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoTX9bh2ONU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiM3Wbqy5nw . . . . . . . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXpXpsYgcSk

There was a witness testomony that the vice president confirmed the order for NORAD to stand down. It was a man who worked at the airport where the plane was hijacked. He heard on his ham radio that it was a missle, then came home to see on the news that it was a plane.

[aps1080]

I have watched the jesse one before.

Some valid points.

Explosives, fuel, etc generally leave a set pattern of damage and residue after detonating. I think some points had merit, some not so.


If you want a hero of 9/11 and a born leader, read up on Rick Rescorla in wiki and the We were Soldiers web site.