seems mandatory vaccine is the go for the work place ....

[rogespeed]

The vaccine for covid , seems now being mandated for those currently employed

Seems like a violation of the existing conditions of employment for many , particularly whereby there is no mandate for  influenza vaccine requirement

Of course a harmless vaccine proven to mitigate against deadly covid-19 is desirable however some may object for whatever reason - and as are currently employed , one wonders the moral efficacy of coerced inoculation, as is clearly a workplace agreement item 

There is talk of dismissing currently employed workers for non-compliance

This to me would violate existing workplace agreements and a violation - fully paid leave would be the only  ethical way of excluding current employees ( unless all are retrenched then re-employed under covid safe clauses ) 

If there was no alternate to vaccination a strong case could be argued

But there are alternatives - periodic pcr tests,  daily check-in fast antigen tests , 1 minute on the treadmill 

The vaccines are released under emergency use meaning are experimental , so clearly fall under international law regarding strictly no forcing of experimental treatments

All that i am saying is that while inoculation is the most convenient , controllable and cost effective procedure , there should be an alternate process that meets workplace requirements

[4channel]

@padi*0409 wrote:

4C, I am fully vaccinated and I've made that decision for a number of reasons,

Firstly, with being vaccinated my chances of getting a severe case of COVID are greatly reduced.

https://uihc.org/news/vaccinated-vs-unvaccinated-how-sick-can-you-get

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Reply by 4channel:

Good for you. Fair enough! I respect that this is your choice. I hope it works best for you. However in many cases   .. .. .. .. .. The "vaccination" may reduce the severity of the symptoms and may be beneficial due to the unavailability of "proven in the field" effective, very cheap, safe early-stage treatment involving doxycycline, hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin. I'll add another drug here as well, molnupiravir due to the expensive cost set by Merck.

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@padi*0409 wrote:

Secondly, being fully vaccinated reduces my chance of passing the virus on to other people.

https://theconversation.com/your-unvaccinated-friend-is-roughly-20-times-more-likely-to-give-you-cov...

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Reply by 4channel:

There seems to be a lot of controversy on this. The rhetoric has changed from what it was in the beginning where "You must be vaccinated so you don't infect others" to "You must be vaccinated so you don't clog up the hospital system. But by by the way, occasionally vaccinated people with breakthrough infections an infect others".

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 

Viral Loads Similar Between Vaccinated and Unvaccinated People
Survey Underscores Importance of Masks and Testing Along With Vaccines

by Andy Fell October 04, 2021

https://www.ucdavis.edu/health/covid-19/news/viral-loads-similar-between-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated...

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 

The controversy is that there are many doctors around the world who are stating that "vaccinated" people can carry as much virus as a non-vaccinated person in their nasal area, even more in some cases. There are other doctors, highly respected and credible (wait till the big pharma investigator finds out about Dr ******s habit of gambling or non-payment of speeding fines) medical professionals, scientists etc. who have stated "vaccinated" people can potentially become spreaders of super-virus that is resistant to all treatment.

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@padi*0409 wrote:

Whether you like it or not vaccinated people will, and do, have greater freedom to move around in the community. It's a fact that at the moment many governments worldwide do not recognize alternative treatments for COVID, so by you deciding not to get vaccinated you have put yourself in a situation where you are more likely to get COVID, and if you do get it you are more likely to suffer greater problems as a result.

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Reply by 4channel:

Yes, we know what is going on. It's called fascism. It's medical apartheid. The "vaccinated" people may have some kind of resemblance of freedom, but that will be conditional to keeping up with on-going booster requirements. What may appear to be freedom only looks that way due to the fact that those who decide not to take the jab are going to be treated like the untouchables in Calcutta or Bombay, or those who were forced to wear certain sewn-on tags in Germany during the 30s and 40s.

Recognition is owned! In various countries around the world, early stage drug treatment is the norm.

Your decision to take the jab may have another degree of common sense to it without your even being aware of that aspect. See, in some places around the world, those who have taken the jab and still get sick are given lifesaving drugs such as i********n and h****************e to get them better due to the "vaccine" not providing the stated protection. This is usually not shouted out loud.

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@padi*0409 wrote:

With medical advances there may be effective alternative treatments in the future, if that happens then I may rethink having further vaccinations. Until then I will go with the best current treatments available, for the sake of my friends and family and myself.

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Reply by 4channel:

Well padi0409, my fellow man, I don't want to be disappointed here as I sense somewhere within there's a real person who really wants to know what's going on. I know for a fact that you're certainly not short of it upstairs. Today we live in a world where technology is racing by, almost at warp speed and every thing today will be yesterday's-thing tomorrow. Yet, the mainstream media represents certain aspects of medicine as if it hadn't improved from the 1800s.

Take chemo and radiotherapy. This is nothing but a crude and clumsy approach to treating cancer. (many don't even call it treatment) To think that this medicine is as backward as that is to deny something that is so obvious when one looks further. The media, the industry are in a symbiotic relationship. Incompetent politicians keep it happening for them. If you navigate around this wall you'll find many great things happening medically, but sadly they won't find their way to you due to the relationship between industry and media. So you must make the effort!

Do your own research mate, embark on a journey that quite soon put things in a whole different view for you. Shake off the shackles mate and you'll know that the best current treatments are not available. I say this with the best of intent.

[countessalmirena]

“Do your own research” is something I advocate, albeit with a caveat. For those without a background in microbiology, biochemistry, medical sciences, it’s really almost impossible to “research” detailed and data-heavy medical studies without even a baseline of knowledge. If what you mean is “Do your own google searches” and “Watch the videos spread in Messenger or WhatsApp or Telegram or various encoded apps, that is a different thing. It is frighteningly easy to be indoctrinated under the banner of “freedom.”.

Even for those with such a background, even for those who are fully qualified and have been practising for years, even specialists, … every single one of us can disagree amongst each other.

It may come down to who has the most potent public speaking ability. It may be more who is saying things with which you already agree. We tend – as humans – to accept things more readily from authority sources who are sympathetic to or in support of views we already have.

I do still support the basic notion of looking into what is said. We should avoid being blind goats following rhetoric over hard data.

[4channel]

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@springyzone wrote:

And I think it is perfectly possible that that route may work for you. I see diet and exercise as lifestyle changes that affect your overall health, not just resistance to covid etc and I am sure you do too.

But I think, at the same time, it is important not to underestimate the seriousness of covid.

Up to now, I had never actually known anyone who had had covid, though just about everyone I know has had to be tested at some time or another.

My daughter though knows a whole family down with it. Now the parents had had their 1st vaccination but not the second, so their immune system would not have had the chanced to develop a high level of antibodies. The mother was quite sick for 2 weeks, the husband was extremely sick, one child was mildly sick and one showed little to no reaction. The wife said she is glad they were not totally unvaccinated as she wouldn't like to have a full on covid attack.

And now unfortunately we are awaiting news of my sister in law's husband. He was in a nursing home in Ringwood and covid has spread to quite a few staff and residents. He had low functioning kidneys and the level dropped further. When taken to hospital to have it checked out, they discovered he had covid. He is in palliatve care and not going to make it.

Now I know that had he not had pre existing conditions etc, covid may not have had this impact but the thing is, while covid is spreading in the community, these people are at great risk.

So we really need to aim to virtually eliminate it as much as possible, just as we have for other life threatening diseases. Vaccination is going to have the biggest impact on that.

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                   ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Springyzone, those two examples you gave are very sad and I do wish the best outcome for them and especially your sister in law's husband. He's family to you so obviously this affects you too which I'm really sorry to learn of.

People are going to be affected whether others are jabbed or not. A virus is a hitchhiker and whether a person is vaccinated or not it will engineer ways to hitch a ride to infect others. It will get smarter to find other ways when encountering blockages. I know we've been over this before and it's obvious you believe in regulations and what is determined to be effective and what isn't.

This corona virus is as serious as what it is allowed to be. What I'm getting at is the way the issue has been dealt with both medically and politically. What has been noted world-wide by experts is the gross incompetence of the medical system in many countries, mainly Western countries. There's even evidence of gross misconduct on various levels.

Well, here's an idea. Take a piece of paper and draw a line down the middle and have one column (#A) as No big gain for big pharma and another (#B) as Big gain for big-pharma. A tick will go in either column.

* First line (#1) is What is officially deemed to be an effective strategy.
* The next line (#2) Imposed regulations for re-purposed drugs that are cheap, * line (#3) is politicians that do what lobbyists and corporations want,
* line (#4) is for politicians that do not do what lobbyists and corporations want and so forth . . . ...
Now do the same exercise with another few issues, say invading another country, fracking and so forth ....

I would be surprised if there were not more ticks in Column (#B) representing Big gain for big-pharma. And in comparison to other exercises where there's a known agenda, if there weren't then it would be an unbelievable exception.

The incompetence of our medical system is represented in many ways. One of the most ridiculous things is how cancer is treated. Crude, clumsy by any standard, but highly profitable to big pharma. Another is the psychotropic drugging of children when a simple solution would be to regulate the garbage they eat. It all reminds me of the blood letting approach doctors did way back then. The patient was bled and bled until they died of blood loss.
    The approach to treating covid-19 is lacking in many ways. Doctors are instructed to tell people to stay home and basically do nothing as far as treatment goes. But when the patient becomes too ill they are told to go to hospital where they are given remdesivir and put on ventilators. This approach is wrong. The drug remdesivir causes complications in many people. Affected kidneys and lungs can be a side effect.

As I have said, a properly tested vaccine for those who want it is a desirable strategy and it belongs in a group of options that include early stage drugs, proven in the field many times. Because on the incompetence and gross stupidity of medical admin, coupled with big pharma influence, many lives lost could have been saved.

[countessalmirena]

For you to be so disdainful of and contemptuous towards the medical systems, towards the researchers and clinicians who have been working their butts off to develop safe vaccines, safe treatments, anything that can help against COVID-19, and to do so as someone who is not medically qualified or experienced or trained in any way, is offensive.

[domino-710]

To say nothing of provocative and bellicose.

[4channel]

@countessalmirena wrote:

“Do your own research” is something I advocate, albeit with a caveat. For those without a background in microbiology, biochemistry, medical sciences, it’s really almost impossible to “research” detailed and data-heavy medical studies without even a baseline of knowledge. If what you mean is “Do your own google searches” and “Watch the videos spread in Messenger or WhatsApp or Telegram or various encoded apps, that is a different thing. It is frighteningly easy to be indoctrinated under the banner of “freedom.”.

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Reply by 4channel:

I don't think that anyone an be any more indoctrinated by researching info in those platforms you mentioned any more than they can be by listening to mainstream news and TV doctors and politicians safe-guarding their lucerative careers. Due to the connection between mainstream news, politicians and mega corporations, I can see people being less-indoctrinated and thinking more laterally by taking an alternative route to learning about things. I realize that's probably something that doesn't appeal to you but it is true.

On various platforms, even YouTube at times, there are doctors, professors, scientists who are just as qualified and in some cases as recently shown, more qualified than the doctors on the mainstream news. Like a comb from the chemist that pulls out hair lice, the history, personal lives of these professionals who speak out is worked through back and forth to see if anything can be found to discredit them.

Under the banner of freedom there's always going to be some silly stuff on various platforms but any discerning individual will know who to listen to and who not to. Much of the info that people come across is info that is "withheld" because that info if widely known is a threat to someone's profit etc..

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@countessalmirena wrote:

Even for those with such a background, even for those who are fully qualified and have been practising for years, even specialists, … every single one of us can disagree amongst each other.

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Reply by 4channel:

Sometimes disagreement and agreement can be bought. Some specialists are victims of their own education and training and even though being specialist in their field they are incapable of thinking outside their programming.

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@countessalmirena wrote:

It may come down to who has the most potent public speaking ability. It may be more who is saying things with which you already agree. We tend – as humans – to accept things more readily from authority sources who are sympathetic to or in support of views we already have.

I do still support the basic notion of looking into what is said. We should avoid being blind goats following rhetoric over hard data.

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Reply by 4channel:

Aah the "Confirmation Bias" thingy again. I wonder if that term was invented by the same crowd who invented "Conspiracy Theorist"? With me, my take on this latest corona virus issue has changed from what it was earlier. Some people I know have had a steadfast view on it all and no matter what comes into the picture, they remain unmovable. Others I know are fluid in their thinking.

Looking at Gulf War One ✈️💣🔥☢️, the victims of both the US and Saddam, there are many who believe that their government would never lie to them and the war with Iraq was a righteous act. Even with some who believe Bush II was on a divine mission with the second war. They believe so because Bush said God spoke to him, combined with the belief, when Western people invade a non-Western country it's the right thing to do. (You know ... it's the "We're civilized and they're not" kind of thing)
By now, many of the everyday people have worked out that things were not as they were officially presented but now nearly 3 decades later after Gulf War One, who cares? Well, the surviving Gulf War vets, their families and their children born with deformities, inherited health issues as a result care! Media doesn't care and is not showing you this!

You talk of goats. 🐐 Well, there's two types that I know of. One type has learnt to jump the fence and pick out his own tasty treats and the other that stays in his allocated field eating the same old grass and weeds. There's a third type of Goat, the Judas one. Best to avoid!

[4channel]

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@countessalmirena  wrOte:

For you to be so disdainful of and contemptuous towards the medical systems, towards the researchers and clinicians who have been working their butts off to develop safe vaccines, safe treatments, anything that can help against COVID-19, and to do so as someone who is not medically qualified or experienced or trained in any way, is offensive.

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Reply, Well now countessalmirena? I have nothing but respect for those working to find solutions to this current corona virus issue. But I have no respect for corruption and incompetence that has seeped into medical practice.  World-renowned, highly respected Doctors such as Dr. Peter McCullough, Dr. Pierre Khory / Kory have spoken out about what is taking place (or isn't depending on how you view it) with the approach to treatment. Dr. McCullough said in an interview last year that "The world is off its axis".

Politicians such as Craig Kelly who dare speak out are calling this "A crime against humanity".

Other doctors and professionals are Dr. Dolores Cahill, Dr. Robert Malone, Dr. Michael Yeadon etc. etc..

The below is from Bing News

Reiner Fuellmich is suing the WHO

https://iono.fm/e/1019129

[domino-710]

Geez - you come up with some loo loos.

Reiner Fuellmich. LOL

Conspiracies r us

From around the 7th minute onwards in the video Fuellmich simply abandons any appearances of sane discourse and invokes almost every known conspiracy theory circulating on the internet. Davos is out to get him, there is a “great reset” underway, covid vaccines are compared to genetic bio-experiments, mass sterilization experiments (you can almost see Mike Yeadon typing Fuellmich’s script in the background). Even the Jews are dragged into and he has the audacity to compare the pandemic response to the holocaust.

It’s at this point that any credibility the man may have built up, based on his questionable earlier pseudo-science-based statements, flies out the window, and I feel comfortable closing with the following. Reiner Fuellmich is simply another one-trick pony and not a very impressive one. A con artist with delusions of grandeur and ambitions way above his station. 

If you can seriously entertain either the man or the sham he presents as actual fact, then you can consider your indoctrination into the ethereal world of conspiracies complete. You haven’t been flummoxed, you’ve been Fuellmiched. 

Hmm, think I may get T-Shirts printed. Pfizer, where’s my cheque?

[4channel]

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@rogespeed wrote:

The vaccine for covid , seems now being mandated for those currently employed

Seems like a violation of the existing conditions of employment for many , particularly whereby there is no mandate for  influenza vaccine requirement

Of course a harmless vaccine proven to mitigate against deadly covid-19 is desirable however some may object for whatever reason - and as are currently employed , one wonders the moral efficacy of coerced inoculation, as is clearly a workplace agreement item 

There is talk of dismissing currently employed workers for non-compliance

This to me would violate existing workplace agreements and a violation - fully paid leave would be the only  ethical way of excluding current employees ( unless all are retrenched then re-employed under covid safe clauses ) 

If there was no alternate to vaccination a strong case could be argued

But there are alternatives - periodic pcr tests,  daily check-in fast antigen tests , 1 minute on the treadmill 

The vaccines are released under emergency use meaning are experimental , so clearly fall under international law regarding strictly no forcing of experimental treatments

All that i am saying is that while inoculation is the most convenient , controllable and cost effective procedure , there should be an alternate process that meets workplace requirements

---

                                                    ------------------------------------------------------------------

The problem is rogespeed, that due to there being no justification for mandatory vaccination due to the effectiveness of early stage drug treatment, proven in the field time and time again as well as the fact that "vaxxed" people are quite capable of spreading the virus and infecting others, a brutal and violating approach had been adopted. Aided by the media, a massive fear-propaganda campaign has taken place in this the 21st Century.

Some old fierce political rivals have spoken out with the same condemnation about what is taking place right before our eyes in the state of Victoria. Here we have one of them, a former Australian Prime minister calling a state premier a dictator and confirming that there is a fear campaign taking place. Prominent doctors are speaking out and highly respected policemen and women have spoken out, some resigning from their positions in utter disgust.

The state of Victoria will have a massive, massive PTSD issue which will manifest itself in various forms for generations to come.

[4channel]

I will anticipate an effort to discredit Dr. Reiner Fuellmich. He should know that when someone takes on Drug dealers, be they legal or illegal, there will be efforts to make sure that this annoying person is taken care of, be it by nefarious means legal or illegal or via proxy in the form of content by controlled media or shill websites. I understand that they have to take care of their investment, but come on! I hope that Fuellmich's life is not destroyed beyond repair.

Some years back a female doctor who's name eludes me at this moment had found a way to deal with a pandemic in Africa. I remember her being attacked in the media and on shill sites as well as having outlandish accusations thrown at her.

Big Pharma insider, Brandy Vaughan was on the verge of sharing more info on the testing practices for drugs etc.. Sadly her untimely and mysterious death put an end to that possibility.

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Scandal at Merck, former(old) one executive, Brandy Vaughan, admits everything

374,638 views, Oct 10, 2017
Deborah Donnier
43K subscribers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAwJrQIDTgQ

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Details Regarding the Passing of Brandy Vaughan
15,708 views, Feb 2, 2021

Parents For Healthcare Rights
13.5K subscribers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBc_FFLWaf0

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Back to Dr. Fuellmich, I recall a time where one of his interviews was grossly misquoted. Turns out the interview being referred to was not the one that people were led to believe. And even then the take on it was grossly distorted. I await the self-appointed muck-rakers here as well.

BTW: The last decent Australian PM and probably the best, Kevin Rudd made a big mistake with taking on the mining industry. It cost him dearly.

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Calls for Rudd to stand down
350 views
Jun 13, 2010
ABC News (Australia)
1.5M subscribers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1J2_8BWMLQ