welfare reform

[dellynt]

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/a-tale-of-two-families-sydneys-work-and-welfare-divide/sto...

welfare reform 'has to happen

40 per cent of children from jobless households on welfare by age 20

39 per cent of children follow parents’ footsteps and live off taxpayer

12 per cent of children under 14 are growing up in jobless families

[wilk1149]

Any so called dole bludger that doesn't resort to crime is doing their bit. I for one when I wasn't working had we had no unemployment benefit would have started a life of crime in a heart beat. Much cheaper to pay the dole than gaol them. No unemployment benefit would cost the government more and anybody that wanted to stay alive

[azureline**]

What is the suicide rate like now for armed forces?

I can't imagine that all the unemployed would be fit for National Service................ it would make a mockery of the armed forces entry program if everyone was accepted.

Don't they have to pass physical and psychological testing?

[***super_nova***]

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@poddster wrote:

Did you miss this post Nove?

A 2 year national service would go a fair way to take up the shortfall. And not only in the military

The unemployed recipients are already being paid by the taxpayer with no return from them back to the taxpayer.

Get the dole bludgers off their butt and earn their keep, part of their keep any way.

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No, i did not miss anything.  You do not seem to understand that there is absolutely no saving in sending people to "work for dole" schemes.  They still get their dole, plus bit more, plus the whole scheme costs many times of what the original cost was, or what it would be if the job was just done by ordinary workers.  So it does not take any pressure of anything, actually it adds pressure.  On paper it might look as if the welfare bill went down, but wherever the money would come from the costs would go up by much more.  Taxpayer does not get anything back .

 National service was acceptable in times when war was fought by many footsoldiers, who were disposable.  But that is not what the army is on about.  It's unworkable, the army does not want it, and nobody in their right mind would even try to introduce it into parliament. 

[bella_again]

For starters it is very difficult to gain entry to the forces and very few who apply are accepted.  Secondly there were studies into the work for the dole, most of them negative.  The scheme did not get people into work, did not develop their skills much and was a flop.  Do some googling.

There is already a volunteer requirement/work search requirement.  They are not lazy there are not enough jobs full stop end of story. If you can create another 580,000 odd jobs we might be on to something. But making a blanket statement that all unemployed are bludgers seems ignorant and certainly does not represent the majority of people who have no choice but to go on the payment to survive. 

But of course some would rather they starve, be homeless and live in the gutter.  Out of sight out of mind, no wonder there is a high level of mental illness in this group. God forbid any of us have compassion and actually come up with something constructive that might resolve the issue.

[nevynreally]

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@bella_again wrote:

For starters it is very difficult to gain entry to the forces and very few who apply are accepted.  Secondly there were studies into the work for the dole, most of them negative.  The scheme did not get people into work, did not develop their skills much and was a flop.  Do some googling.

There is already a volunteer requirement/work search requirement.  They are not lazy there are not enough jobs full stop end of story. If you can create another 580,000 odd jobs we might be on to something. But making a blanket statement that all unemployed are bludgers seems ignorant and certainly does not represent the majority of people who have no choice but to go on the payment to survive. 

But of course some would rather they starve, be homeless and live in the gutter.  Out of sight out of mind, no wonder there is a high level of mental illness in this group. God forbid any of us have compassion and actually come up with something constructive that might resolve the issue.

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You know what though? Sending out the young dole recipients out with Para's and fireys and maybe even the armed forces, could give them an understanding about community,about working for a living instead of sitting on your butt in front of the computer day in day out. If paramedics and firey's are okay with it. Observing sometimes leads to understanding.

[bella_again]

I don't disagree that experience in the right setting leads to enrichment of skills, however what I don't understand is why we think unemployed people don't have skills.  I have known unemployed people with PHD's and degrees, who have struggled to find employment in their fields.  Unemployment knows no barriers, it can affect anyone at anytime.  I think we need to look at meaningful ways to engage people but lets not have the stick approach, let's keep people's mental health and self esteem intact in the process.  That way we will have better outcomes long term. As such we need a multi faceted approach, looking at lots of different ways to enable people to effectively engage in their community.

I think as a society  we need to stop boxing people who are unfortunate enough to find themselves in this category, far too many people don't seem to be able to relate to those going through difficult times and needing assistance.

[nevynreally]

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@bella_again wrote:

I don't disagree that experience in the right setting leads to enrichment of skills, however what I don't understand is why we think unemployed people don't have skills.  I have known unemployed people with PHD's and degrees, who have struggled to find employment in their fields.  Unemployment knows no barriers, it can affect anyone at anytime.  I think we need to look at meaningful ways to engage people but lets not have the stick approach, let's keep people's mental health and self esteem intact in the process.  That way we will have better outcomes long term. As such we need a multi faceted approach, looking at lots of different ways to enable people to effectively engage in their community.

I think as a society  we need to stop boxing people who are unfortunate enough to find themselves in this category, far too many people don't seem to be able to relate to those going through difficult times and needing assistance.

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I don't disagree with the first part of your post.  My point was never about those who want to work, but about those who    have decided they can't have one, for what ever reason and that's good enough to get the benefits.

Remove the deadbeats and allow those who want to shine, shine.

[***super_nova***]

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@nevynreally wrote:

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You know what though? Sending out the young dole recipients out with Para's and fireys and maybe even the armed forces, could give them an understanding about community,about working for a living instead of sitting on your butt in front of the computer day in day out. If paramedics and firey's are okay with it. Observing sometimes leads to understanding.

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That might sound good, but in reality it just does not work.  I can guarantee that paramedics and firey's would not  be OK with it.  It would be dangerous, and endangering lives.   I used to work at computer center at university and we used to get "work experience" kids; having them for 2 weeks was a nightmare enough.   Why do you think that businesses avoid training people?  It costs money.

[the_great_she_elephant]

The question nobody has addressed yet is what happens to all these trained and highly disciplined young people when their two years of National Service ends and there still aren't enough jobs to go round?

[myoclon1cjerk]

Julian Knight?