who will win? Trump or Biden?

[davidc4430]

vote now

[lalbo-81]

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@chameleon54 wrote:

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@davidc4430 wrote:

i caught a little of 'the drum' (a current events program on ABC TV) last night where they were discussing the civil unrest and impeachment progress in the USA

" The Drum " Hardly an independent, impartial pervayer of news and current affairs. Guest panels stacked with lefty bureaucrats and academics who are invited onto the show to spout forth personal opinion that reinforces whatever lefty topic is on the agenda for the day. I used to regularly watch it a few years ago, but like most things on the ABC, the bias has become blatant to the point I usually switch channels after a few minutes.. 

General discussion - not referring to anyone in particular-

https://www.9news.com.au/world/trump-impeachment-rioters-acted-on-presidents-orders-democrats-say-in... 

The Democrats have put together a very carefully edited, highly produced, often taken out of context, TV mockumentry as the center piece of their prosecution case. It may be emotive, but when so heavily edited and produced hardly presents as evidence.

I have seen a few of Trumps comments leading up to the attack on Capitol Hill, that could possibly be taken to mean physical attack, but they could also be taken as rhetorical phrase such as " fight for our freedoms ". I haven't seen anything that would stand up in any reasonable court that is definitely legally damning. " Innocent until proven guilty " and in this case the prosecution simply doesn't have the smoking gun it needs.

It appears the senate will find Trump has no case to answer and the impeachment will simply become another small footnote in the history of heavily partisan and spiteful politics. Trump will be free to go on and contest the next election if he chooses and who knows what will happen, four years is a lifetime in politics.

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You, sir, are a liar or crazy.. And as unobservant as it gets, UNLESS, as I suspect, YOU support that madman. 

[lalbo-81]

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@chameleon54 wrote:

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@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

Chameleon wrote: The Democrats have put together a very carefully edited, highly produced, often taken out of context, TV mockumentry as the center piece of their prosecution case.

So if the video presented to the Senate was manipulated and a misinterpretation of what really happened, can we look forward to  the Trump lawyers setting the record straight by presenting one of their own to show:

So called rioters actually entering the Capitol in an orderly fashion and leaving again without causing any damage.

Leftist/Marxist infiltrators using 'false flag' tactics to incriminate innocent Trump supporters.

Trump supporters protecting senators and staff from these same lefties.

Trump supporters tearing down the gallows erected by (presumbly 'false flag') rioters and attempting to suppress the chants of 'Hang Mike Pence.'

Trump either  urging his supporters not to march on the Capitol or to keep that march scrupulously peaceful

Trump acting immediately to condemn the violence and urge that the perpetrators be subjected to the full force of the law

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I,m sure they could do exactly that if they wanted too. Taking carefully selected, carefully edited, small segments, out of context and paste them all together with a patriotic soundtrack to form whatever image they wished to present. Exactly the same as the prosecution have done. 

Would it be emotive....probably......Would it be irrevocable proof of a particular point of view....definitely not.    And that seems to be one of the main problems the prosecution have. There is no smoking gun. Its all just based on innuendo and double entendre, depending on how the listener wishes to interpret it. 

If there was a clear smoking gun, I would be joining with others here baying for the impeachment to be ratified by the senate, but as it stands, the prosecution case is simply too flimsy and inconclusive. Hence the need for the paste up video rather than presenting clear, concise evidence.

We will all know in a few days what the outcome is, but at the moment it looks like the impeachment will fail ( as it should due to lack of conclusive, evidentry proof ) and the whole process will go down in history as just another piece of spiteful, Democrat, partisan politics.

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WRONG AS USUAL.  Will Trump be convicted? Probably not, for the same reason he wasn't before, Republicans are terrified of him, and ignored/are ignoring the evidence. You should be ashamed of yourself for refusing to actually pay any more attention to the truth than the Republicans. 

  Ther is no SPITE involved. In America we call it JUSTICE. Even when the corrupted Republicans allow him to get away with it, AMERICAN PATRIOTS, THE REAL ONES wil know the truth, and Trump WILL go down in history as an unconvicted traitor to his country. And laws will end up changing to make SURE no other President will think they can get away with treason.

 As for your claim that Republicans could create a video that includes what She-el said, you show me ONE clip for each action that NEVER happened. Just one. The time stamps on the Democrats video all match, NOTHING is taken out of context. But you haven't even watched it, have you? You'd make a great Trump supporter. 

[lalbo-81]

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@not_for_sale wrote:

What are we to make of the people who support or defend the violence and killing that took place in the US Capitol? Are they just as disturbed as the insurgents, or misguided in themselves? Is it their minds, personalities, or both?

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They are just as sick and twisted and traitorous as Trump is. The misguided ones are the republicans who regret ever voting for a madman, and they are admitting it. That's the first step out of misguided and into enlightened and truthful.

[lalbo-81]

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@chameleon54 wrote:

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@myoclon1cjerk wrote:
That's what Donald was hoping for. Stacking the Supreme Court with conservatives.
He's as guilty as they come. Anyone who says otherwise is a blinkered Proud Boy or a Qanon nutter.

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I,m not debating whether he is guilty or not. I tend to think he knew what he was doing in inciting the mob. The question is whether he was cunning enough to do it in a way that was not culpable in a legal sense.

I suspect this is the case and this is backed by the fact the Democrat prosecution have been unable to pin down a single incident that categorically proves his guilt, instead relying on a cut and paste video of small pieces, taken out of context to try to present a narrative. Basically, they have been outsmarted again by Trump. 

All up, not enough clear cut evidence to convict and a conviction at this level ( or any level ) should never go ahead without categorical proof. The Democrats simply dont have it and it looks like they will fail for a second time.

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And again I say, you haven't watched or listened to anything but the talking heads on Fox, Newsmax, OANN, and reading RWNJ websites like Gateway Pundit. YOU KNOW NOTHING. YOU ARE A TRUMP SUPPORTER, PERIOD.   And just as idiotic in your defense of Trump as they are. Please stay out of my country. I refuse to respond to your sickening defense of a traitor any longer. Same goes for the other RWNJ's here. You make me physically ill.

[lalbo-81]

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@davidc4430 wrote:

sadly for ALL americans politics in the federal USA has become for at least one side an us against them at any cost

how could anyone have witnessed the events leading up to what happened on the 6th of january and not vote to impeach donald trump for inciting an attack on the capitol?

and yet we can see its just a matter of time before not enough republicans vote YES

the same republicans who were hiding in fear the mob trump sent to kill them would indeed succeed.

not even the fear of losing their lives will get them to 'do the right thing'

the party has so lost its way its no longer there to do 'the best for the country'

but there to destroy the country because they cant live with losing an election

lets hope this is one american ism that doesnt pop up in australia

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Very well said, and you're absolutely right. Thank you.

[chameleon54]

Just a little tip, I dont get FOX or Newsmax or OANN where I live and unlike a few others it seems, I have got better things to do than sit around reading conspiracy theories on websites and watching cable TV all day.

When its all boiled down, its really very simple. 

THE DEMOCRATS HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO COME UP WITH THE SMOKING GUN BECAUSE TRUMP WAS CUNNING ENOUGH NOT TO LEAVE ONE !!!..............That's why the Impeachment will fail

If his actions where more clearly culpable instead of vague statements and double entendre, the Democrats may have convinced enough Republicans to cross the floor and convict. ( No doubt they will convince a few now. With a clearer more robust case they could undoubtedly convince a few more )

Didn't happen and wont happen.................Don't believe me ?..... then wait and see what the senate decides and come back then and tell me I,m wrong.

There is simply not the burden of proof required and it appears Trump will be acquitted. ( as should rightly happen whenever there is not enough evidence )

Chucking a tanty and shooting the messenger, just because you don't like the message, wont change a thing.

[domino-710]

Obviously still having difficulty understanding. 

[chameleon54]

We will know in a few days who understands and who is just wishing, hoping and hating.

[domino-710]

Well - actually we somewhat already know.

The Dems have the smoking gun - they have the not seen before footage of the happenings inside the Capitol.

Insurmountable Evidence - proof.

A number on trial for offences in the Capitol building - are using the - he made me do it - in their defense.

The votes in the Senate are Public - therefore no Republican - other than the six or so who have already - said Trump is guilty as charged - will ' cross the floor ' -  the much needed 11 more - will not ' cross the floor '.

The evidence really has nothing to do with the whole shebang - Trump will be found not guilty - but will go down in History as the - lonely twice Impeached President.

I'm not sure on the voting - but think it is just a majority and not 2/3 - for preventing him from ever holding public office again.

Had this been a court trial - he would most definitely be found guilty.

So just where is the understanding or lack there of and just who is just wishing, hoping and hating.

[domino-710]

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@chameleon54 wrote:

Just a little tip, I dont get FOX or Newsmax or OANN where I live and unlike a few others it seems, I have got better things to do than sit around reading conspiracy theories on websites and watching cable TV all day.

When its all boiled down, its really very simple. 

THE DEMOCRATS HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO COME UP WITH THE SMOKING GUN BECAUSE TRUMP WAS CUNNING ENOUGH NOT TO LEAVE ONE !!!..............That's why the Impeachment will fail

If his actions where more clearly culpable instead of vague statements and double entendre, the Democrats may have convinced enough Republicans to cross the floor and convict. ( No doubt they will convince a few now. With a clearer more robust case they could undoubtedly convince a few more )

Trump :

"We fight like hell. And if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore," he said.

Well - that's a bit vague.

Didn't happen and wont happen.................Don't believe me ?..... then wait and see what the senate decides and come back then and tell me I,m wrong.

There is simply not the burden of proof required and it appears Trump will be acquitted. ( as should rightly happen whenever there is not enough evidence )

Chucking a tanty and shooting the messenger, just because you don't like the message, wont change a thing.

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