Australia Post have stuffed up big time! :(

[cq_tech]

I've been incredibly fortunate in that I've not had a single misdelivery or item of lost mail in several years. Until today, that is, and it couldn't have been at a worse time if they'd actually tried. I sent a 500g Express Post parcel to Lot 13 Collins Promenade in Ingleburn, NSW yesterday, and about an hour ago decided to check and make sure it had been delivered.

Yes, it certainly was, at 1225 today, except that the bloody morons delivered it to an address in Thomastown, Victoria! I've just got off the phone from AP and they can't do anything now until next Monday, when they'll speak with the postman responsible, but I'm absolutely furious as there's not even a Collins Promenade in Thomastown. There is a Collins Street, but it only goes up to number 8, so I'm buggered if I know where my parcel is, but as I told the fellow at AP, I don't trust the recipient to return it, even though it's not eBay related.

Sadly, it was a surprise Xmas present for a close friend of mine, and the fact that it would have been completely unexpected makes no bloody difference in my eyes. I told him that I'll be taking the matter to the Postal Ombudsman, and also made sure that there is a discretionary insurance payout available of up to $50 plus the cost of the express post satchel (another $10.55), which will cover the value of the item I sent, but that's not the point.

I'm currently very angry and also quite upset as it was the only Xmas present I sent this year and I was so looking forward to imagining the look on the recipient's face as it was opened, and now I've been robbed of that one and only pleasure I'd been looking forward to this Xmas, and I'm extremely pi$sed about the whole rotten business.

Because there's no similar addres, I can't even write a letter to the person who received it, so all I can do is hope that they're honest, although my experiences lately tell me that people these days are generally quite the opposite. I have just seven words for Australia Post right now... F#ck you and have a lousy Christmas! 😞

[cq_tech]

Cindy, what you have to understand when lodging an INR claim is that it's not personal. You're simply exercising your right to the protection offered by Paypal. Nobody likes to see a seller disadvantaged or punished for something which is out of their control, but by the same token, neither should you lose out for exactly the same reason. In addition, at worst a seller only loses the wholesale cost of the item, but you stand to lose the full retail price and are therefore far worse off.

I'm really glad that you've lodged a claim with Paypal, especially as you only had 4 more days left in which to do so, and as you say, your item may very well still turn up. It's entirely possible that it's still in bond awaiting inspection by customs and hasn't even been passed on to AP yet, but if it still hasn't arrived by January 15, make absolutely certain that you escalate your claim to a full dispute no later than that date, otherwise the case will automatically close without resolution.

I really hope it doesn't come to that, but if it does, at least you won't have lost your hard-earned money. It might also be a nice gesture if you were to contact your seller through the Paypal dispute console and let them know that the reason you've opened an INR case is to simply protect your interests in case the item doesn't arrive before the 45-day cut-off period, and that if it arrives during the ensuing 20-days before you have to escalate, you'll be more than happy to cancel the claim.

Good luck Cindy, and I hope everything turns out for the best. 🙂

[nattyratty222]

Hi Bill

THANKS SO MUCH, you've saved my bacon lol and helped me a lot.

Will definitely let the seller why I opened the Paypal claim

All the best to you with your astray parcel.

Cindy

[thecatspjs]

CQ which Paypal buyer protection are you posting about ?  The US eBay buyer protection ??

If the goods were purchased and paid for on eBay.com.au with paypal.com.au and the claim is via Paypal there is no buyer protection coverage if the seller can provide proof of post to Paypal. Paypal may provide a discretionary payment, though they are not obligated to.

It is very relevant that it appears Aust Post have lost the parcel, as compensation should be pursued through AP if that is the case.

Paypal does not provide insurance for lost parcels. It simply provides a resolution process between buyers and sellers.

Paypal.au policy and user agreement is quite clear about this.

[cq_tech]

At this stage it's uncertain if the item had even cleared customs so nobody seems to knows which carrier was responsible for it when it went astray. I'm rather hoping that it's simply been caught up in customs over the Christmas period, but if it has truly been lost and Paypal reject Cindy's INR claim, there are other avenues which will ensure a satisfactory resolution to the problem.

[thecatspjs]

What other avenues are they CQ ?

I think it important that you clarify your post - it is very misleading for other buyers that may view the boards and expect to be covered by paypal for lost parcels - this is no longer the case for purchases made on ebay.com.au and paid with paypal.com.au

Cindy indicates that AP was responsible for delivery.

Always worth requesting sellers to quote for post plus insurance.  Then no-one but carrier is out of pocket - as it should be.

[cq_tech]

I've no idea which US carrier was used cats, but I think the assumption that it will ultimately be delivered by AP is probably correct, unless it was sent using the GSP in which case it could be languishing on the floor of their Botany depot for the next week or so, or until somebody gets around to having it delivered.

If there have been any recent changes to Paypal's Buyer Protection Policies then I'm not aware of them, but I would still expect that in the event of a knock-back, my natural charm, along with the assistance of the FOS would see a satisfactory resolution to the issue, even if it meant that Paypal had to make a discretionary payment.

In the interim however, I will familiarise myself with any possible recent alterations to the T&Cs of Paypal's user agreement. Had there been any, I'd have expected to have received an email from them to let me know, which is what they're required by law to do, but I've heard nothing from them for several months now.

[thecatspjs]

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@cq_tech wrote:

If there have been any recent changes to Paypal's Buyer Protection Policies then I'm not aware of them, but I would still expect that in the event of a knock-back, my natural charm, along with the assistance of the FOS would see a satisfactory resolution to the issue, even if it meant that Paypal had to make a discretionary payment.

---

Cut and paste User agreement (au)  Schedule 1 Paypal seller and buyer protection policies

S9.6 You have no automatic entitlement to receive any payments under the PayPal Buyer Protection Policy.

S9.7 The PayPal Buyer Protection Policy does not indemnify you for loss which may be incurred and it is not a contract of insurance.

S9.8 If we determine a claim in your favour we will reimburse you the full purchase price of the item and original postage costs only. We will not reimburse you for the postage costs you incur to return an item to the seller or another party we reasonably specify.

S9.9 If the seller presents Proof of Shipment to your address, we may find in their favour even if you did not receive the item.

Whilst mentioning the FOS may seem to work for you, I do not think it is because Paypal is doing the wrong thing in these situations, this policy change was introduced yonks ago, I think in 2012 ??

[englishrosegardens]

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@cq_tech wrote:
Cindy, what you have to understand when lodging an INR claim is that it's not personal. You're simply exercising your right to the protection offered by Paypal. Nobody likes to see a seller disadvantaged or punished for something which is out of their control, but by the same token, neither should you lose out for exactly the same reason. In addition, at worst a seller only loses the wholesale cost of the item, but you stand to lose the full retail price and are therefore far worse off.

I'm really glad that you've lodged a claim with Paypal, especially as you only had 4 more days left in which to do so, and as you say, your item may very well still turn up. It's entirely possible that it's still in bond awaiting inspection by customs and hasn't even been passed on to AP yet, but if it still hasn't arrived by January 15, make absolutely certain that you escalate your claim to a full dispute no later than that date, otherwise the case will automatically close without resolution.

I really hope it doesn't come to that, but if it does, at least you won't have lost your hard-earned money. It might also be a nice gesture if you were to contact your seller through the Paypal dispute console and let them know that the reason you've opened an INR case is to simply protect your interests in case the item doesn't arrive before the 45-day cut-off period, and that if it arrives during the ensuing 20-days before you have to escalate, you'll be more than happy to cancel the claim.

---

Three things: 

1. bindyeye clearly stated that the item has passed customs in Australia, and that it was processed through the sort facility (presumably AP's sort facility) on 25th Nov.

2. The seller doesn't just lose the wholesale cost of the item - they lose the item, the fees, and the cost of postage.  The cost of postage could easily be more than any profit they may have made.  As this particular item is an antique and not just a run of the mill retail-type item, the seller may well have been already selling it at a loss.

3. I thought the 45 days for starting a paypal dispute had been extended to 180 days.

[clarry100]

We are experiencing a similar situation to Cindy, except that it does not involve PayPal or eBay.

We order most of our stock from China.

When we order from internal Chinese factories/suppliers, who do not ship internationally, we use a shipping agent located in Shanghai.

They sent us two boxes that left there together on Dec 2nd.

One we have already taken delivery of just before Xmas.

The other has not been received as yet.

The shipping company has been made aware of it and have been trying to track it down for us.

Last week they told us that they could track it to having cleared customs in Sydney and had been passed to Australia Post for subsequent handling/delivery.

So now its looking like AP have lost it in country. This is quite a large box about $AUD200 value to us. It's stock we will need to re-order if it's lost.

So if it does not turn up tomorrow then I am going to need to annoy AP to try to find it.

Any ideas on who/where to contact AP about this kind of thing?

[nattyratty222]

Hi Clarry!

HOPE you had a GREAT CHRISTMAS!!!!!!!!

Sorry you haven't received your shipment yet too.

Really hope you'll receive it soon, seeing Christmas is over.

I rang Australia Post Customer Service number 131318

Best of luck to you

Cindy