Buyer claiming S.N.A.D - complex case

[seaworthee1]

To cut a long story short:

1) Sent a camera with accessories to a buyer.

2) Buyer claims that accessories were sent in box, but not the camera body. Claims that the box was not tampered with. 

3) Buyer opens a dispute in Paypal almost immediately after receiving said item, escalates it to a claim after I said I packed everything in the box. Did not give me a chance to seriously investigate the matter or come up with some sort of amicable solution.

4) I have provided documentary evidence of tracking, postage etc, photos - but obviously this proof is useless in a SNAD case.

5) I've also rang Australia Post and they confirmed it was delivered, and that it wasn't opened for routine inspection or anything like that. There is now an investigation underway as to the whereabouts of this item. 

I suspect Australia Post will rule against my claim because as far as they are concerned, the item was delivered (albeit apparently missing the auction item). I'm also fairly likely to lose in the dispute with PayPal, as buyers are wholly protected in cases of items significantly not as described provided they return the item.

Is there any recourse of action for myself? The buyer is in the process of filing a police report and signing a stat dec, all because I sent an item I knew to be 100% accurate and true to the listing. I have been now advised to file a police report and stat dec myself, but this **bleep**-for-tat business doesn't seem like it will produce a result in the end. It will be a case of his stat dec versus my stat dec, and so on. 

It might also be unwise of me to file a police report if I am not sure the buyer has kept the item and is claiming that he did not receive it in full. Australia Post are investigating things on their end but it would appear to take a lot more time than it takes to resolve an average PayPal dispute.

Any advice here would be greatly appreciated. Thankyou.

[harley_babes_hoard]

do you have the receipt? what was the weight on the receipt it would be significantly less with no actual camera in the box?

[seaworthee1]

I have a receipt of lodgement but it was sent using flat rate postage (BX4 mailing box) using the paid for postage labels on Ebay, i.e. there is no recorded weight on the receipt.

Even if the buyer sends the package back to me, there is nothing to say he wouldn't tamper with it further or send nothing back at all.

[character_parties_aus]

Whilst the weight will probably  not assist in winning the claim directly,  it will definately assist in any police investigation on the matter. If you have that then you can scare the wits out of the buyer with it which of course may assist with winning the claim!

This is where my use of e-parcel is fantastic as I have the weight to the gram on every big order and its shut down a few arguments. I dont think you get exact weight on click and send? could be wrong of course

[aps1080]

These are damn hard one's to solve because it involves trust. I don't have a solution except to say that

I have taken to taking a photo of the items in the box before sealing.

Good luck.

[seaworthee1]

I will be using eparcels in future then, that is for sure. Photos may have helped but they are just as easily manipulated for personal gain, and I honestly did not envisage such a hassle developing from this transaction. Lesson learnt.

[i-love-my-sheep]

Have you checked the buyers feedback to see if there is any evidence of SNAD's? Both in feedback left and feedback left for others. If he has a history of this in feedback, it might help your case.

Good luck is all I can say. It's a lot of money to lose to a scammer. Please keep us posted on any developments.

[digital*ghost]

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@seaworthee1 wrote:

To cut a long story short:

1) Sent a camera with accessories to a buyer.

2) Buyer claims that accessories were sent in box, but not the camera body. Claims that the box was not tampered with. 

3) Buyer opens a dispute in Paypal almost immediately after receiving said item, escalates it to a claim after 

---

Did they communicate with you at all before opening the dispute? Going straight to a claim - while not damning evidence - raises a red flag to me, and sadly it wouldn't be the first time such things have happened.

I don't know how to go about defending such a claim, but all should not be lost if the buyer does win the dispute. They will have to send the item back by registered post in order to receive their refund - which may or may not be issued by PayPal before you have the item back. I would suggest opening the package in front of witnesses, and if the item is not returned in the same condition as when sent (including all components), you should have grounds to appeal any PayPal decision on this basis.

You may not get anywhere with them at first, but ask to speak to a supervisor, take down all the details of who you speak to, and if you don't get anywhere with them file a complaint with the BFSO.

You also have the option - if it gets to the point where the buyer has been refunded and has returned less than what you sent, to report them for online fraud. If the buyer had said the package was tampered with, then I would be more inclined to believe something else happened, but as I'm sure you're fully aware of what you sealed in the box, they confirmed the package was not tampered with, and that the camera was missing but all accessories were in the box, my suspicions lie elsewhere (who would tamper with a package, steal the camera but not the accessories, leave not trace of the tampering, then let the package go on its merry way? Sorry, I just don't buy it). 

[cherry*135]

Yes, odd the box wasn't tampered with but camera is missing. Seller put the camera in the box...

As i-love-my-sheep mentioned what is the buyer's history? been registered a short or long time? low or high fb, any feedback that suggests somethings didn't go right before?

[seaworthee1]

You raise some valid points digitalghost, especially your last paragraph. I have since discovered that the buyer has left a total of fourteen (14) negative feedback transactions regarding 'item not received' and 'not as decribed' in the past 12 months, with one seller even mirroring my experience where he escalated to a claim pronto. 14 in the last 12 months seems excessive to me, I understand things go missing in the mail periodically but you can't be this unlucky surely. I'm confident that if I went back further than 12 months I would find similar instances of this feedback.

Yes, the buyer did communicate with me, albeit briefly after he received the goods in the mail. The conversation consisted basically of 'where is my camera?' and my responding that I had packed it in the box. While I was actually on hold to Australia Post I received an email from Paypal for a dispute and then a claim. There was precisely 9 minutes between the notification of a dispute and then a claim.

The buyer has won the PayPal dispute as of today, and has 10 days to ship whatever the buyer claims he got back to me. As I understand it, only then is PayPal/myself obligated to issue a refund.

Australia Post are investigating the matter but I do not expect them to rule in my favour as the item was delivered as far as they are concerned, and there was no damage or theft to the article in transit according to their representative. They are doing an investigation anyway, but it would take a very determined courier to get into the package, steal the camera, and then re-tape the package. It was heavily fortified with tape and bubblewrap and to deliver the item in a state that was apparently untampered with to the buyer is an amazing feat indeed.

I have made a complaint about the dispute to Paypal including the relevant information I have gleaned since then (the claim was opened so quickly that I had to combine all of my knowledge into one single response on the fly, without the ability to add more information as it came to hand). Moreover the complaint to Paypal will allow me to open a case with the FOS if necessary.

Thanks for your insightful post dg.