Buyer opens ridiculous PayPal claim- am I screwed?

[tripledoublesportscards]

Hey everyone. Long time lurker and first time poster.  I'll try and keep this short !

I'm located in Australia and I sold a couple of items (trading cards) to a buyer in France. Total was $165, shipped fully tracked in accordance to eBay / PayPal policy.

Buyer was charged fees by French customs. He said he refuses to pick up the package at the post office unless I pay the tax for him!

In the "item not received" dispute, he claims because the item was shipped fully tracked, declared at full value, and because I didn't warn him about potential tax charges, therefore I'm responsible to pay the fees imposed by the French government.

My response- (1) There is no way a seller can be familiar with the laws of different countries; (2) It is actually against the law to falsify documents; (3) I would have had to fill out a customs forms anyway even if I shipped standard mail.

Just wondering if anyone has been or know someone who has been in a similar situation?

I've responded with screenshots of his threats and demands he made on eBay. I've also provided a very detailed statement expressing my views and concerns related to the issue.

I have read some horror stories where buyers have manipulated the system and I fear that I may become a victim of the process.

Do I even remotely stand a chance to win the case?

Any insight would be much appreciated. Thanks!

[digital*ghost]

You should not lose this case at all - if by some chance you do, you can lodge a case with FOS.

Make sure you offer the buyer nothing via the dispute, provide all tracking details, and possibly call PayPal to see if the outcome can be expedited.

Oh, and tell the buyer if they refuse the customs charges, they have no protection, meaning they'll lose the money and the goods.

[tripledoublesportscards]

Hi, appreciate the response!

He already esclated the case via PayPal overnight. 

He is basically claiming this situation has occured because it was declared full amount, sent with tracking and because I didn't "warn him".

I called PayPal and forwarded screenshots of the conversation on eBay, as well as a detailed statement expressing my thoughts and views related to the issue.

They gave me the generic allow up to 10 days for them to investigate. That kind of response has me worried. Because to me, it couldn't be more black and white. And I just have this feeling that they are going to decide in his favor.

The fact that he is even able to open a claim on such ridiiclous grounds also has me worried as well. 

You make a great point about him losing protection if he is refuses to collect the package, he has made that point very clear and even showed me the awaiting collection card he received, so the package is definitely waiting to be collected.

[lyndal1838]

He cannot claim that he did not receive the item if he does not collect it from Customs.   The dispute should close in your favour...if it does not do so just take your case to the FOS.

Just one point for future reference.....if you are selling overseas you should put a disclaimer on your listings stating that buyers are responsible for all charges imposed by their country's Customs.   There is a sample wording somewhere in the advice to sellers.

Good luck....and don't worry about it.  You really can't lose this one.

[digital*ghost]

I wouldn't be too concerned at this point in time - if the buyer has opened an INR, and you have provided PayPal with full tracking details, and the buyer themselves has even admitted the package has essentially arrived but they won't collect it, it should be a very clear cut case for PayPal to decide - that is, buyer says "not received" yet confirms package arrived, case closed. (Obviously, I can't guarantee that, but it's definitely how it should go). 

I had a buyer complain heavily to me about the charges, but hadn't opened a dispute over it (their message was very accusatory, and I feel that if I hadn't handled it in the right way, they might have tried to dispute - conincidentally, also in France. It's kinda common for buyers living in EU countries, though, because they can buy from other EU countries without getting charged, so from the more ignorant / uneducated perspective, they buy internationally and only some parcels attract the fees, then don't make the connection as to why so it must be the seller's fault). 

Anyway, my point... I advise my buyer that if they refuse to pay and collect the parcel, the goods will be returned to me, and that because I had full proof of shipment, arrival and their refusal to pay, they wouldn't be able to claim their payment back, however I would issue a refund of the payment, minus all costs (such as postage) if / when I received it back. She paid the charges, but tried to act like she was doing me a favour, but the only one she did was advise she wouldn't buy from me again. 

[tripledoublesportscards]

Thank you!

And I hope you are right. It's a really ridiculous situation to be in.

I just really hope common sense prevail instead of the "customer is always right" mentality.

That's a good idea bout the disclaimer, will get on that now!

[tripledoublesportscards]

Yeah I hope you are right. It's just super annoying having my funds frozen and having to go through the up to 10 days "investigation" process. To me, there is nothing to investigate lol.

You made a good point about refusing to collect the package. I just checked the tracking again and it does show "attempted delivery". So I hope that can be used as evidence to my favor.

I did give PayPal another call, at first she said, I should have included the tax charges in the postage rate. I asked her- how am I supposed to know what each country's tax laws are?

As I provided more info, she said generally that would end in my favor if there is evidence pointing towards the package being in his country with delivery attempt (s), as well as messages of him saying he refuses to pick up the package unless I pay the tax for him!

Too much drama!

[respect.our.planet]

If he doesn't want to pay taxes on it the parcel should be returned to you. You will lose postage costs, but not more.

It sounds really ridiculous that he claims the item has not arrived if he knows where it is and he refuses to pay any additional taxes.

If he really said you shouldn't have declared the full amount it also sounds like he is not an honest person.

So I guess the French don't talk as much about import charges as we do if he didn't know!

[digital*ghost]

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@tripledoublesportscards wrote:


I did give PayPal another call, at first she said, I should have included the tax charges in the postage rate. I asked her- how am I supposed to know what each country's tax laws are?

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A PayPal employee should know better than that, considering the nature of their business - if you have cause to speak with them again, and they try to say something similar, remind them that Australia is not part of the EU, therefore prices quoted can not be tax-inclusive, and that regardless, the EU requires that the seller collect and remit taxes only for digital goods, not physical goods which are posted, since physical goods are handled by customs in the respective country, and taxes applied / charged accordingly directly to the recipient, therefore you had no obligation whatsoever to collect the tax on behalf of the buyer.

[jellybirddesigns]

That sounds crazy!

I have used the Ebay disclaimer at the bottom of all my listings - have a look for reference if you like.

Having said that, it has ALWAYS been the buyers responsibility to be aware of any fees, charges, duties etc - it has never been up to the seller to be aware of what all 160 countries on earth have as their Customs policies.

You should copy the Ebay disclaimer and send it to him - you should also update the PP case if you can to say that the buyer refuses to pay the import charges that are due and are solely his responsibility. Paypal should be aware that all buyers need to pay duties owed.

I would think that after a certain amount of time at the PO, the package would automatically get returned to you anyway. I know in the UK it is about 28 days.