Can eBay override a Sellers Consumer Law rights?

I recently sold my Canon 6D camera body only (nowhere in the pictures or the text did I include the battery or charger - I also listed it at a reduced price as I was keeping these items. The buyer won and I posted the camera to him with insurance (he was obviously going to on-sell it as he sold another Canon 6D 10 days before for more than $100 more. Immediately upon receipt he claimed the item was missing parts, then within the hour added the camera was faulty as it was making a ‘whirring noise when turned on and off’ - neither of these is true. eBay then had the seller return the camera to me and gave him a full refund even though I provided them with a video proving the camera wasn’t doing this. He also did some damage to the camera as well as using the camera, he also failed to return the warranty slip and the original receipt. 

 

To me the contract act of sale is not voidable as the camera is not faulty or missing parts. 

 

My question is, has eBay breached consumer law in that the buyer who was not entitled to a refund as the camera is not faulty?

 

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Can eBay override a Sellers Consumer Law rights?

I understand the predicament you have found yourself in.

 

In your listing it states “Battery type: Li-ion, Lithium Ion” in two places, once in the Item Specifics and once in the Product Details.

 

In not having any statement saying “NO BATTERY OR CHARGER”, some members might take it as meaning the battery is included.

 

 

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Can eBay override a Sellers Consumer Law rights?

Thanks for the heads-up - I didn’t actually add that description as I didn’t even know the battery type. So I now see I am unintentionally at fault. 😟. Thanks for taking the time to respond. I appreciate it. 

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Can eBay override a Sellers Consumer Law rights?

That’s okay, that’s what these boards are for . . . . . . looking at things through new/fresh eyes and maybe seeing something that posters may have overlooked.

 

For what it is worth, I don’t think that having no charger would be an issue based on your listing.

 

 

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Can eBay override a Sellers Consumer Law rights?

I think this is the problem with online sales in that although you may have a video of the camera working, there is no proof it was actually in that condition when it arrived at the buyer's home. (I don't doubt your word, just saying this would probably be ebay's perspective)

It's not like being at the supermarket where they open & inspect your eggs before handing them over to you, so you have no come back.

So the contract is voidable as the buyer has claimed it is faulty. Again, in a real shop, the person behind the counter would examine it first before issuing a refund but this isn't practical on ebay or a lot of other buying sites.

As for the battery & charger, if they were not included, I agree with k1000 you would have been better to put that clearly in the ad, because if the battery got mentioned in any part of that ad, most buyers would expect to receive it unless told otherwise.

 

I doubt ebay has breached consumer law, but I feel for you as I've been in a similar situation (though not with a camera).

 

Whether or not ebay was right or wrong though, the fact is they have issued the refund & the camera has been returned to you. You could complain to ebay about the damage to the camera & how a full refund should not have been given. Perhaps they will compensate you but perhaps not. But you could try.

 

Most definitely though i would write to the buyer and ask if they could please post the warranty slip & original receipt back to you as they were not included. They would only need to go in an envelope so that should be easy enough for them to do & if he is any sort of decent person, he would do it for you, as they will help if you need to re-sell. Worth asking, anyway.

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Can eBay override a Sellers Consumer Law rights?


@springyzone wrote:

 

 

I doubt ebay has breached consumer law, 

 

 


They certainly don't allow sellers to exercise their rights under consumer law - the most relevant ones being the right to inspect goods before approving a refund on the grounds of significantly not as described, and the buyer being responsible for return postage (which they can request be reimbursed if the item does indeed have a fault).

 

I understand that this in practice could leave buyer's vulnerable, but it wouldn't be hard, just more expensive to facilitate, for eBay to at least require supporting evidence for buyer's claims, which by all rights is how it should work (that is how law works, at any rate), instead they require evidence from the seller to unequivocally negate buyer's claims when it comes to INAD, which by definition (and design) can be near impossible. (I know they do in some circumstances, so why not extend that to at least a photo or video upload? Considering many sellers (such as myself) will provide a refund without return if there is a clear, visible fault shown in a photo, it has the potential to make things easier for the honest members, and a little harder for the dishonest ones. 

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Can eBay override a Sellers Consumer Law rights?

My experience (on other sales sites) has been that when I experience a fault, I have taken a photo of it or else described the fault and I have been issued a return postage label and a refund when they receive the item.

In one case, I had broken glassware (which i did not have to return) and I was issued a full refund for the set of glasses, even though only 2 were broken. I provided photographic evidence.

The second item, I could not provide a photo, it was an air fryer that stopped working after 10 minutes. They had no hesitation in providing me with a label to return it. I could not have provided a video, I don't have a smartphone (walk of shame).

If they had not also refunded me, I would have been furious.Online buying is not the same as buying from a shop, that's what i have found.

 

I understand what you are saying about the right of a retailer or seller to inspect goods to see if a refund is warranted but I think it gets complicated with ebay as they are not the seller. Probably more to the point, most retail stores have pretty clear guidelines for staff to follow when it comes to refunds and (most of the time) a buyer is dealing with staff who don't own the business, so have nothing to lose by giving a refund/playing fair.

On ebay a lot of the time, the opposite applies, a buyer is dealing with the person running the business or in some cases, with the occasional home seller. I don't necessarily trust them to do the right thing. After all, there is no one watching at their end to counter their claims either.

Imagine if you were a buyer with a legitimate complaint about an item, you returned it and the seller said nope, nothing wrong with it, no refund.

In a real shop, the buyer might not get a refund but at least would walk away with the item. In the above scenario, the buyer would be left with nothing. 

I am quite sure you & a lot of other sellers here are honest people but there are a few who sell on ebay who are not.

 

I think ebay should most definitely ask buyers to provide some evidence of a problem, perhaps with a photo or detailed description, but I think after that, (if those problems were not mentioned in the ad) ebay has to believe the buyer to a large extent.

 

Unfortunately I don't think there are easy answers, but ebay has to make it as safe as possible for buyers.

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Can eBay override a Sellers Consumer Law rights?

The buyer has been hostile since the camera was received. He didn’t even talk to me just raised a refund request and left negative feedback.  When I believed the camera had been damaged in the post (it was fully insured) I immediately went to the post office and found out how to make a claim and said I would help him make a claim. He said bluntly NO, I want a refund which automatically raised my concern and I thought he may have willfully damaged it. But it came back with minor damage, a higher shutter count, and a small amount of paint missing from the bottom. 

 

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Can eBay override a Sellers Consumer Law rights?


@springyzone wrote:

 

 

I understand what you are saying about the right of a retailer or seller to inspect goods to see if a refund is warranted but I think it gets complicated with ebay as they are not the seller. Probably more to the point, most retail stores have pretty clear guidelines for staff to follow when it comes to refunds and (most of the time) a buyer is dealing with staff who don't own the business, so have nothing to lose by giving a refund/playing fair.

On ebay a lot of the time, the opposite applies, a buyer is dealing with the person running the business or in some cases, with the occasional home seller. I don't necessarily trust them to do the right thing. After all, there is no one watching at their end to counter their claims either.

Imagine if you were a buyer with a legitimate complaint about an item, you returned it and the seller said nope, nothing wrong with it, no refund.

In a real shop, the buyer might not get a refund but at least would walk away with the item. In the above scenario, the buyer would be left with nothing. 

I am quite sure you & a lot of other sellers here are honest people but there are a few who sell on ebay who are not.

 


That's why I said I understand the buyer would be vulnerable, so I know it's not really a viable solution for isuses with online retail, more particularly when dealing with unknown parties, sometimes even when dealing with well-established businesses. 

 

But, an argument could also be made that certain things need to be the responsibility of the buyer, as a result of choosing to shop online over other options. 

 

To put that in context, many online sites only accept credit card payments. Ok, so the buyer needs to have access to an acceptable payment method to shop there. They can't message a store and say "I don't have a card, you have to let me pay a different way". 

 

Everyone hopes that nothing goes wrong with their purchase, but that's just not how it works, even with the very best of sellers, which means every time a buyer purchases something online, they really should be aware of, and accept, the possibility that they might have a responsibility (or responsibilities) to fulfil post-sale. A seller can do as much as they can to make those easier to fulfil, but they can't elininate things like the need for the buyer to drive 20ks to the post office to return the item and so on.  So too, a buyer's lack of available equipment like a phone or camera is not the seller's problem - as much as a buyer who is having a difficult transaction might not like to hear it, those issues are 100% theirs, just like not being able to pay with a credit card isn't a seller's problem. 

 

If a buyer turned around and said "I don't have a printer, so I can't print the postage label the seller purchased, so I can't return the item, give me a refund anyway", they would should be shot down instantly (figuratively speaking Smiley Very Happy ). I don't really see some buyers not having access in any way whatsoever to anything that can provide visual proof of a claim should result in 100% unquestionable acceptance of word.

 

In saying that, I also understand visual evidence isn't always possible, in the sense that the issue is non-visible, so any system that requests (as opposed to requires) visual evidence needs to be able to make exceptions. 

 

I also don't see why ebay can't / won't accept evidence from the seller of incorrect items being returned, or clear evidence the issue was caused by the buyer, but that's something only they can answer.

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Can eBay override a Sellers Consumer Law rights?

go-tazz
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@elizabethac29 wrote:

I recently sold my Canon 6D camera body only (nowhere in the pictures or the text did I include the battery or charger - I also listed it at a reduced price as I was keeping these items. The buyer won and I posted the camera to him with insurance (he was obviously going to on-sell it as he sold another Canon 6D 10 days before for more than $100 more. Immediately upon receipt he claimed the item was missing parts, then within the hour added the camera was faulty as it was making a ‘whirring noise when turned on and off’ - neither of these is true. eBay then had the seller return the camera to me and gave him a full refund even though I provided them with a video proving the camera wasn’t doing this. He also did some damage to the camera as well as using the camera, he also failed to return the warranty slip and the original receipt. 

 

To me the contract act of sale is not voidable as the camera is not faulty or missing parts. 

 

My question is, has eBay breached consumer law in that the buyer who was not entitled to a refund as the camera is not faulty?

 


You listed it without the lens,even though it was in the picture,(No lens included in price. Please ignore lens in

 

image).

You then didn't put anything else in there that wasn't included so the buyer had no idea about the battery or

 

the charger,(both of those items should've been put into that section as not being included).

You should've also stated that the warrenty slip and the original receipt were included,(that way they would've

 

had to be sent back as they were then part of the listing).

 

Always include what is included and what's not included so the buyer and eBay know and they can act if

 

everything isn't included in case of an INAD.

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