Customer claims he did not receive order even tho delivered and signed for

[menn-intrailers]

I have a situation with a customer who claims he did not receive his item.

He bought the item on 5 June and I shipped it 7 June via Fastway couriers. When I shipped it I sent him an email with tracking number and estimated delivery date. 

On 25 June I sent out some reminder emails to customers who had not yet left feedback encouraging them to contact me if there were any problems. This customer contacted me back and said he was "still waiting patiently for his item". I was surprised he hadn't contacted me earlier but I tracked the parcel and discovered that it was delivered and signed for on 11 June by someone with his first name! When I informed the customer he checked the online tracking info and contacted me back saying it was not his signature.

I contacted my local Fastway office and they filed a "Disputed Signature" claim. 

The next day the courier who delivered the package contacted me. He'd been to see the customer and stated that the customer was the person who signed for the package! He said he told the customer he remembers he was working on his car at the time. The customer lives in a house at the front of a property with a business (second hand/recycled parts) premises behind. The courier told me he does deliveries there all the time and the two guys who owned the business had claimed before that a parcel wasn't delivered when it was. He told me the 3 guys were all 'mates' and he reckoned they were 'scammers'. He said it's gotten to the point he hates doing deliveries there. He said he told the customer that it would come out of his own pocket and the guy said nothing. The courier was reporting the situation to his area supervisor and they would take it from there. Fastway has now told me my responsibility ends here - parcel was sent, delivered and signed for and the guy has no claim on me or them.

Apparently the customer did not deny receiving it when the courier confronted him. However before he was even visited by the courier he had filed an 'item not received' dispute with Paypal. (We had 9 emails between us that day and he did not mention the dispute he had filed.) After the courier had seen him he escalated the dispute to a claim stating he was escalating it because "the signature was not his" and he couldn't have been there "because he was at work". The claim means that Paypal is now holding the funds while they investigate.

I'm at a loss to know what to do next. I've responded to the dispute with a tracking number and the courier's details and am waiting to hear more from Paypal. The customer made no contact for 2 days after the courier visit but now is hassling me to send his item. I want to do the right thing morally and also don't want this reflecting on my ebay store's reputation but I really don't know what to believe or do next!

The courier has had his franchise/run for nearly 4 years. He called and spoke to me direct and he sounded very believable. I know some ppl have had problems with Fastway but in over 9 years I've never had an issue and have been totally satisfied with their service. The customer has a 100% ebay rating of well over 600 so I can't understand why he would say he didn't receive the item if he did. The only thing I can think is that he saw an opportunity when I sent the feedback reminder email and ran with it! However I have to ask why didn't he contact me earlier when he hadn't received his item? Also prior to sending via courier I had stipulated in an email that the courier would not leave the parcel if there was nobody there, so if he wouldn't be home it would be better sending via Australia Post. He chose courier so why is he now saying he was at work?

Would it be acceptable to ask the customer to send a copy of his drivers license so I can check the signature myself? I would imagine it would be a close match to the signature obtained by Fastway if he originally received it with no intention of claiming otherwise. If I did discover his signature was the same obviously I would want to send him a replacement item but what would I need to do to claim the cost of the item?

Any advice would be really appreciated!!

cheers

Cheryl

[richardunavailable]

I have had similar and sent another item both express which is tracked and have proof it was delivered, it sentme broke as so many customers do it knowing they can just threaten with out saying your reputation, Im a powerseller but a poor one.

[menn-intrailers]

I thought about insurance but Fastway says that because it is clear the item was delivered and signed for, no claim can be made. Insurance will not pay for an item that's been recorded as received and signed for.

😞

[menn-intrailers]

jplus2013:

I have had similar ....Im a powerseller but a poor one.

Starting to relate to that jplus2013. Between eBay & Paypal fees it's tough enough without losing money for an item you supplied! 

ausflylady:
This doesn't sound right, why would paypal be satisfied with the buyers claim? You "Apparently" have all the evidence requiredto support your claim - Tracking & Signature. Correct?

Because If its not enough, what else would suffice to support your claim?.....

Correct. Doesn't sound right to me either! From what I can see the buyer has submitted nothing but a statement saying he didn't get his parcel I initially submitted the tracking number and sent them a letter stating I had shipped the item along with a link to the Fastway tracking results. The tracking results show the signature and has my customer's first name as the person who'd received and signed for it. This was accompanied by PDFs of a copy of the eBay Shipping/Sales report showing tracking number and shipping date as well as a copy of the courier run sheet.

The courier run sheet (kept by my local courier) clearly shows the pickup date/time and the tracking number. Although the full address is shown on the eBay shipping report, on the run sheet the street address is listed but not the property number. I thought maybe Paypal didn't see that as sufficient evidence that the parcel had been delivered to the correct place??

It makes absolutely no sense to me. There is nothing anywhere I can find on the Paypal site that states they won't insure anything freighted by Fastway. Even if Fastway did have a bad reputation, the fact remains that I shipped the parcel in good faith that it would be delivered. I have done everything right and fulfilled every seller oblgation above and beyond.

Since I received the email saying Paypal had found in the buyer's favour, I have started an appeal and lodged a PDF of the tracking results. I've sent a message asking for an explanation and requesting they either refund my money now or let me know what else they require. I'm still waiting to hear back from them.

davewil1964:

If they knock back your appeal, ring them and point out that you sold the item on eBay, you have proof of both postage AND delivery to the correct address, therefore you are eligible for seller protection, therefore that cannot take your money....... but if they don't go to the ombudsman.

A phone call and ombudsman will be my next step.

Thanks everyone for the feedback. Guess it's a waiting game now!

🙂

[menn-intrailers]

I have had similar ....Im a powerseller but a poor one.

Starting to relate to that jplus2013. Between eBay & Paypal fees it's tough enough without losing money for an item you supplied! 

ausflylady:
This doesn't sound right, why would paypal be satisfied with the buyers claim? You "Apparently" have all the evidence requiredto support your claim - Tracking & Signature. Correct?

Because If its not enough, what else would suffice to support your claim?.....

Correct. Doesn't sound right to me either! From what I can see the buyer has submitted nothing but a statement saying he didn't get his parcel I initially submitted the tracking number and sent them a letter stating I had shipped the item along with a link to the Fastway tracking results. The tracking results show the signature and has my customer's first name as the person who'd received and signed for it. This was accompanied by PDFs of a copy of the eBay Shipping/Sales report showing tracking number and shipping date as well as a copy of the courier run sheet.

The courier run sheet (kept by my local courier) clearly shows the pickup date/time and the tracking number. Although the full address is shown on the eBay shipping report, on the run sheet the street address is listed but not the property number. I thought maybe Paypal didn't see that as sufficient evidence that the parcel had been delivered to the correct place??

It makes absolutely no sense to me. There is nothing anywhere I can find on the Paypal site that states they won't insure anything freighted by Fastway. Even if Fastway did have a bad reputation, the fact remains that I shipped the parcel in good faith that it would be delivered. I have done everything right and fulfilled every seller oblgation above and beyond.

Since I received the email saying Paypal had found in the buyer's favour, I have started an appeal and lodged a PDF of the tracking results. I've sent a message asking for an explanation and requesting they either refund my money now or let me know what else they require. I'm still waiting to hear back from them.

davewil1964:

If they knock back your appeal, ring them and point out that you sold the item on eBay, you have proof of both postage AND delivery to the correct address, therefore you are eligible for seller protection, therefore that cannot take your money....... but if they don't go to the ombudsman.

A phone call and ombudsman will be my next step.

Thanks everyone for the feedback. Guess it's a waiting game now!

🙂

[menn-intrailers]

The other thing I've just found is that on my eBay Seller Dashboard I now have a big red 'VERY LOW' under Policy Compliance whereas I've always had HIGH!  Not happy!! 😞

What can I do about this?

[menn-intrailers]

Well I have an email from paypal:

"We’ve finished investigating the following buyer complaint:
 
Transaction Details
-------------------------
......[details removed]

Tracking Number: ZA0002150878
Shipping Company: Fastway Couriers
 
Unfortunately, we cannot grant your claim appeal because we were unable to track your shipment. We cannot track a shipment if:
 
• The tracking number was incorrect or incomplete.
• You didn’t supply the requested proof of shipment within the allotted time.
• The tracking number does not show delivery to the shipping address in the transaction details.
• The transaction details from the payment you received didn't include a shipping address.
 
If you have additional tracking information, or have any further questions, reply to this email or send a message to complaint-response@paypal.com."

I am so frustrated with this! I really thought I'd win this case so easily. 😞

How can Paypal send me an email telling me how to appeal, then I appeal and they send me this letter saying the case has been finished!! 

In response to the above points,:

• The tracking number is correct and complete

• I supplied the tracking number within the first day of being informed of the case.

• The tracking number does not show delivery to the shipping address in the transaction details - HOWEVER I also sent the eBay shipping/sales record which does show the address and a courier run sheet which shows the street but not house number - same as all items on the run sheet.

• The transaction details did include an address.

 Do I even bother emailing them back or do I just take this to the Financial Ombudsman?

😞

[davewil1964]

Go to the FOS

[cq_tech]

FOS online claim form... http://www.fos.org.au/centric/home_page/resolving_disputes/how_to_lodge_a_dispute.jsp

[colic2bullsgirlore]

My experience with fastways courier last Thursday.....

get home message on answering machine

"this is fastways your address is outside our delivery area..leaving the parcel at Valla landscape supplies"

http://fastway.com.au/courier-services/track-your-parcel?l=FA0025572449

In transit

Your parcel is currently in transit between our 'Sydney' and 'Port Macquarie' depots.

24/07/2013

15:15:41

Sydney

Picked up

Your parcel was picked up

24/07/2013

15:24:42

Sydney

Left by courier

Left by Courier - Your parcel is currently at our 'Coffs Harbour' depot.

25/07/2013

07:53:50

Coffs Harbour

Onboard

Onboard - the parcel is onboard the Courier vehicle.

25/07/2013

12:17:31

Coffs Harbour

Authority to leave

Authority to Leave - your parcel has been delivered. According to your instructions a signature may not have been required.

25/07/2013

12:18:25

Coffs Harbour

very smart answering machine that can make a decision by supplying an alternate delivery address and deciding no signature is needed

................... fastways have done the exact same thing many many times...... on Thursday I had to dig through a pile of packages ...15 maybe.... all because Fastways accepted to supply the delivery service and then  refused.

having been on both sides of the table

OP you need to scan the fastways sticker stub and send that to paypal

so that the delivery address can be verified.

If you used one of their prepaid bags then you need to provide documentation ie. a stat dec stating the delivery address that the item was sent to  and have that affirmation witnessed by a JP

You can see the tracking info on my package above does not mention the buyers postcode nor address.

This is the info paypal is looking for to meet the minimum  paypal.com.au  seller protection policy requirements

ie tracking on its own does not prove anything

just my opinion and how I proved to paypal that an item met paypal seller protection policy guidelines

[colic2bullsgirlore]

So to put it plainly paypal are not accepting the drivers manifest sheet with the street address as "documentation" that correlates the delivery address.

The  information you supplied paypal already meets the SPP guidelines minimum requirement

ie date and official acceptance by the carrier

However a stat dec witnessed by a JP is definitely "documentation" that is accepted by the judicial system .

False statutory declarations carry heavy penalties and possible imprisonment

The fastways page actually shows the date the item was sent and official acceptance by the courier company

....so I have the feeling that paypal is assessing your claim under the US SPP guidelines rather than the Australia SPP paypal

guidelines which are completely different.

Sometimes you need to quote to paypal and supply the financial ombudsmans office with paypal minimum SPP requirements

and show them how your evidence complies and an explanation as to why they refused your claim

the relevant paypal requirements are below and a l;ink to where the info can be found.

https://www.paypal.com/au/webapps/mpp/security/sell-shippingrecommendations

Buyers and sellers, at the very least, must provide documentation that includes the date the item was sent, plus one of:

    1 An official acceptance by the shipper, such as a postmark or online status (status that shows the item was delivered is also acceptable)

    2 The recipient's delivery address showing at least the state, city and postcode (or international equivalent)

     3 A receipt from Australia Post showing at least the recipient's suburb, city or postcode (or international equivalent)

[menn-intrailers]

davewil1964

Go to the FOS

cq_tech

FOS online claim form... http://www.fos.org.au/centric/home_page/resolving_disputes/how_to_lodge_a_dispute.jsp

Thanks for that davewil1964 and cq_tech. I'll do that.

colic2bullsgirlore

Re Fastway:

I guess it really depends on which courier driver you get in the long run. I've used Fastway now for over 9 years. Had 2 drivers in that time who have been awesome. Gone out of their way for me many times, always on the ball and I've never had a problem with them. It's a rural area and a family business up here and maybe that makes a difference. I can count on 1 hand the problems I've had with other area franchises though in all that time. All of them have been in city areas where they employ a lot of drivers who don't have a stake in the business.

I've never had a non-delivery before though and in this case the driver has actually owned the run for over 3 and a hlaf year so he does have a stake in the business. It makes it a little harder for me to beieve he's lying but then I can pros and cons on both sides.

I have had parcels delivered to depots and agents before but that's generally in rural places, or places where Fastway has no agent. Fastway does state that "some country areas are depot service only". I also know that in some cases the parcels are passed to a 3rd party agent who either does the final delivery or leaves at a depot or agency. So I totally expect that and I warn my customers at the time of the sale.  

In Fastway's defence in your case, they did attempt to make contact with you with a phone number you'd provided and told you where your parcel was. Without an answer, the driver, who has a scheduled run to keep to, has to make a decision. The decision, by company guidelines is to leave the parcel at your closest agency. I imagine Valla Landscape Supplies would be that agent in your area. In many rural areas it does tend to be a business (in my town it's a tyre place and a machinery shop!) No signature would be required if it is the local agent.

I always tell my customers if there's not going to be anyone home when the courier does the delivery, the driver will attempt to contact them first, so I always get a contact number. Then I tell them if they can't be contacted the driver will leave a message or calling card and the parcel will most likely be held at the local depot or agency and they'll have to collect it there. 

In your case it was inconvenient but they also did what they were supposed to do.

So to put it plainly paypal are not accepting the drivers manifest sheet with the street address as "documentation" that correlates the delivery address.  

The  information you supplied paypal already meets the SPP guidelines minimum requirement ie date and official acceptance by the carrier....

....so I have the feeling that paypal is assessing your claim under the US SPP guidelines rather than the Australia SPP paypal

 guidelines which are completely different......

Thanks so much this information! I had no idea there were differences in the SPP guideline! I am certainly well and truly within their guiidelines according to those points you listed.

I'll get a stat dec, send another email to Paypal and point these things out. Considering they say the case is closed I don't know what they'll do, so I'll start proceedings with the FOS and inform them of that as well. Maybe then they'll change their tune.