HELP PLEASE

[spanka4perry]

We sold a gas log fire (eneded 31 days ago) seller picked up a few days later and paid cash - they were very happy with the unit, we described it as the model number that came with the operating instructions we got it with (picture is the same on the front of the operating manual so corresponds in my eyes!) and we advertised it as needing a clean as it's been sitting in the shed for 12 months.

Now these buyers have just phoned us tonight to say that they want some money refunded as they've had to spend money on the unit.  They are upset that it's not natural gas (we didn't specify what gas it was as most are LPG and every other serious bidder actually contacted us and asked) but again we just said it was gas - didn't specify LPG or Natural.  They said they had to put a mantle around it (how the hell is that our problem?!) AND they said they've pulled the logs out of it, added pebbles etc (again - how is that our problem?!) - but clearly they've modified it.  Now i should mention they've also installed it. 

They are trying to tell us we've sold them a different model number but what they are giving us sounds like a seriel not model number (so obviously different!!!)  We asked for a picture of the so called model number to prove that it doesn't correspond with the manual we sold it with and thier response was "what do you want that for?!".

Where do we stand, they paid cash, as far as we are concerned we sold the unit as is and as described.  I think they are just upset as they didn't look into what they bought before bidding (carrying onto my husband that we sold them a 20 year old heater.... - um we NEVER specified age - only model number!!!) and they've had it for a month and obviously done modifications to get it to thier liking and install it - so who knows what they've done to it! 

What reprocussions does this have for us (if any?)

[colic2bullsgirlore]

http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/ftw/Consumers/Contracts.page

Before signing a contract the parties involved should:

• be sure they really want and know what they are signing for. If in doubt, take time to consider the contract carefully
• read every word - including the fine print

[thecatspjs]

You can not read fine print that is not displayed on the device that you used to purchase the goods.

Or if you bid on an item - prior to that information being available.

In a private sale you also do not necessarily have to return goods in the condition they were sold for a full refund, there are other options.

http://www.lawhandbook.sa.gov.au/ch10s02s10.php

As an alternative to rescission, you can sue for damages.

The court will consider whether the statement was a misrepresentation, whether you relied on it in entering the contract, and whether you have sustained some loss as a result.

The seller may not be ordered to pay damages if she or he can prove either of the following:

• that she or he had reasonable grounds to believe and did believe the statement was true
• that someone else made the statement, for example an employee and the trader did not know and could not reasonably be expected to know that the representation had been made or that it was untrue.

[colic2bullsgirlore]

"You can not read fine print that is not displayed on the device that you used to purchase the goods."

that's the buyers problem

iI you bid at an auction for an item held in a room peering in a window and buy it and it's not what you expected when you finally get into the room and examine it, whose fault is it?

[thecatspjs]

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@colic2bullsgirlore wrote:

"You can not read fine print that is not displayed on the device that you used to purchase the goods."

that's the buyers problem

iI you bid at an auction for an item held in a room peering in a window and buy it and it's not what you expected when you finally get into the room and examine it, whose fault is it?

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sure colic - I am sure you believe that to be true. 

I do not believe it to be true - the information is not shown on the medium used to make the purchase. 

I can see no parallel between peering in a window at an auction in person (where quite different rules are applicable BTW) and purchasing goods via a mobile app - but I am confident it is clear to you . 

[davewil1964]

The question was answered. A copy of the answer will have been sent to the buyer's messages and registered email.

Hardly the seller's fault if they weren't read, and visibility is really for other prospective buyers, so not showing in the app is not germaine.

[colic2bullsgirlore]

it's an analogy here's another

You drive into a car park in a low slung sports car, the only car you own, find a park and go shopping. Upon returning to the

car you notice a parking officer writing you a ticket because you are parked in a disabled parking zone. You confront the

parking offficer and inform him that it is not your fault because the disabled parking zone sign was set at a height where

only drivers that drove more normal heighted vehicles could see the sign in their mirrors as they reverse parked and as you

only own a low slung sports car  and could not see the sign it's not your fault.

[thecatspjs]

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@colic2bullsgirlore wrote:

it's an analogy here's another

You drive into a car park in a low slung sports car, the only car you own, find a park and go shopping. Upon returning to the

car you notice a parking officer writing you a ticket because you are parked in a disabled parking zone. You confront the

parking offficer and inform him that it is not your fault because the disabled parking zone sign was set at a height where

only drivers that drove more normal heighted vehicles could see the sign in their mirrors as they reverse parked and as you

only own a low slung sports car  and could not see the sign it's not your fault.

---

It is again not an analogy that provides a similar comparison to purchasing goods via a mobile device via the eBay app that simply does not display questions and answers from other buyers. 

There is no way of knowing via the app buying interface and listing information displayed on same, that there has ever been a question asked and answered that has been subsequently displayed on other versions of the site. 

Nonetheless, if you did park somewhere and copped  a fine as a parking sign was obscured or not visible (or had been temporarily removed)  at the time you parked there, and you received a ticket- it is the case that thousands if not hundred of thousands of individuals have had fines withdrawn or successfully contested in courts on this basis.

[colic2bullsgirlore]

It is not the sellers fault that the phone operator AKA the buyer (AKA you) cannot correctly operate their phone.

Caveat Emptor..., Read the whole contract (and understand it) including the fine print no matter how well hidden you think it may be.

Ebay links automatically takes most phones to the app program. this can be changed to view ebay using classis view or from the mobile site view as calssic

Usually with cell phones, just like on mine I have now, in the browser settings that you use for ebay... You can adjust settings so that it doesn't open pages in "Mobile View" and can view it like a normal page.

If that doesn't work for you, on the web page itself that you view normally if you scroll all the way to the very bottom you'll see a View mode that you can change from Mobile to whatever else it is that it says. (I can't remember the name at the moment.)

If you change the view or mode there that also will usually work.

I just discovered that if you're viewing an item with the app and you tap on the seller's name, it'll take you to a page where one of the options is to ask the seller a question/read answers

http://community.ebay.com.au/t5/Buying/ebay-mobile-app-changes-frustrating/td-p/842141

http://community.ebay.com.au/t5/Site-Issues/Can-eBay-mobile-be-turned-off-I-prefer-classic-on-my-Nex...

[bakeandfry]

That page on app for questions, is exactly just that, ask the seller a question, options are: general question. Postage question. Combined postage question. And how to pay question. 

[thecatspjs]

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@colic2bullsgirlore wrote:

It is not the sellers fault that the phone operator AKA the buyer (AKA you) cannot correctly operate their phone.

Caveat Emptor..., Read the whole contract (and understand it) including the fine print no matter how well hidden you think it may be.

---

To form part of the sales contract the information should be included in the listing description IMO.

Whilst Caveat Emptor certainly means that a buyer(s) has to take responsibilty for checking out goods prior to payment and collection, it does not mean that a buyer(s) cannot seek legal recourse on a range of grounds including misrepresentation, not-fit-for-purpose, non-visible defects etc etc.

Whether they can successfully achieve a refund or compensation through such action is another issue all together.