I have a feeling we fell for a scam - buyer claiming counterfeit on a genuine very expensive item

I have listed my husband's very expensive phone (it's over $5000 brand new) and finally sold it at best offer for only $1300, much less than what we were hoping to get. But we really needed the money. I took all precautions - took very detailed photos, sent the buyer the IMEI number  and tracking number, insured the phone for $1300 when posted. She received the phone and literally the next day I receive a message that she believes the phone to be a copy or a fake. I am in a state of shock, I am not a retailer, I only sell my own second-hand goods and this phone was a gift from a close friend of my husband's. There is absolutely no chance that it is fake or a copy. She didn't even investigate,  i suggested that she takes the phone to a TAG store to check and she completely ignored that. I have a feeling this is a scam artist who is now requesting a return for refund and will send us back a fake phone to scam us.

 

My questions is, does anyone has any experience with what kind of process ebay/pay pal follows when a buyer claims the item to be fake? I listed the item with "no returns accepted" condition so I am also wondering - am I able to reject her return request?

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Re: I have a feeling we fell for a scam - buyer claiming counterfeit on a genuine very expensive ite

Keep a copy of this thread for future reference.

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Re: I have a feeling we fell for a scam - buyer claiming counterfeit on a genuine very expensive ite

Yes we wish you all the best.

Lots of good advice in this thread and always ask more if you want.

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Re: I have a feeling we fell for a scam - buyer claiming counterfeit on a genuine very expensive ite

Sorry if I cover some ground which may have already be covered by some others as I do not have time to read the whole thread,.  Furthermore it is somewhat unhelpful that this issue has degenerated into a slanging match with accusations and counter accusations of scamming.

 

From what I have read, I find it difficult to establish whether the buyer has made a  PayPal Buyer Protection Claim or a claim under eBay Money Back Guarantee, but seeing that most of the latter comments refer to PayPal, I assume the claim has been made with them, and if that is the cases, then, the only way the buyer has a right to a reimbursement against the seller is if they (the buyer) can prove they were sold a fake, AND HAVING RECEIVED ONE DOESN’T PROVE THEY WERE SENT ONE.

 

The trick (for want of a better word) is place the onus wholly on PayPal to justify any decision they make.  That is, if they find for the buyer, they need to so on the basis that they have sufficient evidence to hand to establish, on the balance of probabilities, that the item handed to the carrier was a fake - and as previously stated, the fact that they received a fake is not is not sufficient prove the item posted was a fake.

 

First and foremost you need to prepare and sign a Statutory Declaration as to the circumstances as to how the phone came into your possession, that the phone sent to the buyer was the one photographed for the purposes of the listing, and that, the phone that their client (the Buyer) photographed as having been received, is not the same phone which you handed to the carrier. 

 

The rationale behind the stat Dec is, if you simply write to them and say “the phone is not the same phone” this is an assertion in the same way tthat when buyer saying “this is the phone I received” that is also an assertion.  However, if that assertion is formalised into a sworn statement, then it ceases to be an assertion and becomes a fact, a fact which PayPal must accept as being true unless they have evidence to the contrary.

 

So where does that leave PayPal.  Having received a sworn statement that the pone is the listing is the one sent, they will then need to get the buyer to provide a sworn statement that the phone received was not the one as contained in the listing.  But this only creates a factual black hole, in that,  all they have is evidence that the listed item was sent, but not received which, which means, unless they have proof that either the buyer or seller is lying,  then the only logic reason left is  it was substituted whilst I transit:  which mean no right of recovery has been established because the seller legal obligation ended the moment it was handed to the carrier.

 

And then just for completes sake get the photo you took for the listing enlarged and provide copies to PayPal so that they can ascertain for themselves what you say was sent and what the buyer says was delivered are different.

 

From that point onwards it pretty much a case of whether PayPal believes the buyer and if they do making a discretionary payment.  However, if, on having been provided with the sworn statement that what you sent was the item contained in the listing, should they chose ignore it, and attempt to deduce the monies from your account, then simply file a dispute with the FOS, at which time it will fall PayPal to justify their decision to ignore a sworn statement without any rebutting evidence in support.

 

Hope this helps

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Re: I have a feeling we fell for a scam - buyer claiming counterfeit on a genuine very expensive ite

I have been reading this since the first day....have no words to say ...just wishing you the best of luck..... ));

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Re: I have a feeling we fell for a scam - buyer claiming counterfeit on a genuine very expensive ite

It helps ENOURMOUSLY, thank you so much!

 

Just to take a few steps back though - they have not filed a case through pay pal unfortunately. What they have done is they have sent me a "request for a refund" first. I think they are VERY experienced and this was done deliberetly. (I think many of the steps they have taken have been very calculated). The reason for sending me the "request for refund" first was to try and coerce me into providing a refund and send the fake item back at my own expense. That's what they have been demanding in all of their rude and threatening messages. The next step they have taken (now that I have refused to accept these demands) is asked for ebay to step in. The case is now in the Resolution Centre. What happens next I have no idea. I am just waiting for ebay to respond.

 

I will be getting a stat dec and writing it up this weekend, thank you so much for the valuable advice. I will also get my husband to write one up about how he received the phone. Just wondering if I would be able to provide it to ebay in the Resolution centre somewhere.

 

This is what still confuses me - how all these resolution case procedures work and how Pay Pal interacts with ebay in this regard.

 

 

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Re: I have a feeling we fell for a scam - buyer claiming counterfeit on a genuine very expensive ite

I would recommend keeping in constant telephone contact with ebay CSR (request a supervisor if the phone bot does not seem to understand) and let them know you have legal documents to submit in support of your side of the case and ask them exactly how they want this done.

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Re: I have a feeling we fell for a scam - buyer claiming counterfeit on a genuine very expensive ite

The problem is people have a propensity to look at things to deeply, where my experience has been the basics usually suffice.

 

Basics:  Under the relevant legislation, where an item is be delivered by carrier, risk passes from the seller to the buyer when the item has been handed to the carrier (there are exemptions but none apply to the current circumstances).

 

Basics:  PayPal is providing a recovery service only, with the right of recovery being limited to those circumstances as provided by the relevant legislation.

 

Basics: A statement which has been sworn must be accepted as being true unless there is clear evidence which says otherwise, and the mere fact that they may be lying isn’t anywhere near enough proof that they are lying.

 

So add the three together.

 

The seller provides a sworn statement that the item which was listed was handed to the carrier. This is proof that the item in the listing was handed to the carrier.

 

As there is proof the item was handed carrier, risk has passed from the seller to the buyer, and as such, no right to recovery exists.  That is, from the sellers perspective, the fact that the item may have been switched in transit, or the buyer is trying to put one over the seller are not things the seller has to prove.  Instead the only thing the seller has to prove is what was posted was the item they listed.    

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Re: I have a feeling we fell for a scam - buyer claiming counterfeit on a genuine very expensive ite

Happened to me with item BuYeR will send their fake back to you keep the original you sent, ebay PPal will recovery funds for buyer, they got it for freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

 

nothing you can do, from this point on, I take  a stat dec form to police station show item send and have proof item is as described,

EBAY HAS OPENED DOORS NOW FOR THIS KIND OF THIEF... AS A SELLER YOU ARE THE BAD ONE, BUYER IS ANGEL POOR THING, BUNCH OF CROOKS ... YOU KNOW WHO. SO SORRY TO HEAR YOUR SITUATION

 

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Re: I have a feeling we fell for a scam - buyer claiming counterfeit on a genuine very expensive ite

bump?

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Re: I have a feeling we fell for a scam - buyer claiming counterfeit on a genuine very expensive ite

I'm wondering, given the sad state of affairs this refund thing is, whether for high ticket, high risk items, like phones, whether it would be worth taking it to the PO and packing it there in view of the postmaster and having a stat dec available to sign saying what went into the box?

 

Of course if your PO is a busy one you'd have to pick your time when it's a bit quieter, but it could work?

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