I have a feeling we fell for a scam - buyer claiming counterfeit on a genuine very expensive item

[bright_tomato]

I have listed my husband's very expensive phone (it's over $5000 brand new) and finally sold it at best offer for only $1300, much less than what we were hoping to get. But we really needed the money. I took all precautions - took very detailed photos, sent the buyer the IMEI number  and tracking number, insured the phone for $1300 when posted. She received the phone and literally the next day I receive a message that she believes the phone to be a copy or a fake. I am in a state of shock, I am not a retailer, I only sell my own second-hand goods and this phone was a gift from a close friend of my husband's. There is absolutely no chance that it is fake or a copy. She didn't even investigate,  i suggested that she takes the phone to a TAG store to check and she completely ignored that. I have a feeling this is a scam artist who is now requesting a return for refund and will send us back a fake phone to scam us.

My questions is, does anyone has any experience with what kind of process ebay/pay pal follows when a buyer claims the item to be fake? I listed the item with "no returns accepted" condition so I am also wondering - am I able to reject her return request?

[onei0403]

Glad you have made an appearance Bearded 1...

Your logic and advice are always appreciated.

Hope you had a great xmas and New Year 🙂

[bigfishtinny]

That would be up to eBay yet again if they will accept a stat dec from the postmaster...... a whole new can of worms maybe?

[clarry100]

As stated above a stat dec is a legal document and by law has to be accepted as true unless compelling evidence shows otherwise.

And in such a case the maker of the stat dec would be in trouble for lying on the thing.

So if ebay/paypal refuse to accept it as true then they must show the evidence they have as to why they do not accept it.

A quick visit to the small claims court presenting all the evidence including the stat decs will soon have them sorted out.

The decision of the court is binding on both parties.

As per TB1 post under Aust Consumer Law I can't see how you can lose. It might take some time but so be it. If ebay lawyers are smart they will concede and as a minimum rule a NO FAULT situation. This would mean you won't lose your money and the buyer may get discretionary compensation from ebay/paypal funds but not from yours.

In this case you will be able to rest easy knowing you have the money you sold the phone for and you will be pretty sure they actually have your real phone as well. Same outcome as it would have been really. Only difference would be that they would have gotten your phone for nothing.

[thecatspjs]

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@bright_tomato wrote:

It helps ENOURMOUSLY, thank you so much!

Just to take a few steps back though - they have not filed a case through pay pal unfortunately. What they have done is they have sent me a "request for a refund" first. I think they are VERY experienced and this was done deliberetly. (I think many of the steps they have taken have been very calculated). The reason for sending me the "request for refund" first was to try and coerce me into providing a refund and send the fake item back at my own expense. That's what they have been demanding in all of their rude and threatening messages. The next step they have taken (now that I have refused to accept these demands) is asked for ebay to step in. The case is now in the Resolution Centre. What happens next I have no idea. I am just waiting for ebay to respond.

I will be getting a stat dec and writing it up this weekend, thank you so much for the valuable advice. I will also get my husband to write one up about how he received the phone. Just wondering if I would be able to provide it to ebay in the Resolution centre somewhere.

This is what still confuses me - how all these resolution case procedures work and how Pay Pal interacts with ebay in this regard.

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Is it in the eBay resolution centre OR the Paypal resolution centre ??

The processes including TIMELINES are quite different.

[tall_bearded01]

This changes things a bit.

As this item was purchased from a seller located in Canada, and as he has asked eBay to intervene, it is probable that the item was purchased on the Canadian site and as such, it is the Canadian eBay site User Agreement and Money back Guarantee which come into play, and I’ve looked the agreement and it pretty much replicates ours.

So here, in addition to at what I’ve previously advised, is what I recommend you do.

Duplicate everything and sent a copies to PayPal, eBay, Aust Post and their Canadian equivalent and keep a hard copy for yourself

When it comes to PayPal, as it’s an eBay Money Back Guarantee claim, they have no active part in the dispute, so you need to make them an active participant and you can do that by writing to them and placing them on notice that, as  you are the view that this dispute involves either buyer or carrier fraud ‘you revoke all previous authorities which eBay may try to use to access your PayPal account’.  Make sure you send a copy to eBay Australia another to eBay Canada.

Next, write to eBay placing them on notice that, if they find for the buyer and attempt to take the monies out of you PayPal account you will file a complaint with to the Canadian Royal Mounted Police.  That is if they find for the buyer, their choices are they can either pay for it themselves, or become part of a RMCP fraud investigation. Furthermore remind them that as a potential fraud had been flagged, and as they have decided to undertake the initial investigation themselves, they are now responsible for the production and safe keeping of all evidence in connection with same, including, obtainment of sworn statement from the buyer to the effect that the phone he now has is the one which received in the post, coupled with taking possession of the phone itself. 

Then do the same with PayPal but with a twist.  That is advise them, if eBay do find for the buyer and they (PayPal) allow them (eBay) access to your funds, you will immediately forward a complaint to the FOS on the basis that, though the transaction has been flagged as potentially fraudulent, they failed in their duty of care to you to properly investigate the matter before handing your money over to eBay.  

NB:  The phone may prove to be decisive.  All mobile phones are unique items whose original point of purchase can be ascertained.  Therefore, if the RCMP become involved, and if it is found that this phone was first sold in say the USA or Canada or even better in the city that the buyer lives well….

[tall_bearded01]

I haven been well.  Blood pressure issues.  If my wife tells my doctor iIve been the boads, he'll have a fit.

anyway thanks for the greating.  Must go before my computer police (my dearly beloved she who in all things must be obeyed) finds out what I'm doing.

Lucly she doesnt read the boards, yet..

[bright_tomato]

Thanks so much again for a detailed reply. And sorry to hear that you are having health issues (your wife is right though, my husband also has high bp and I wouldn't let him near these boards 🙂 )

Will do exactly as you say! In the process of preparing stat decs and will write the emails as you advised.

[tall_bearded01]

Just one more piece of advice before I go for the day.

If you have a high priced item such as this, think twice before you offer it for sale worldwide, if for no other reason, if something goes wrong ,it is far more difficult to resolve than where the buyer and seller are in the same country, and therefore subject to the same laws and legal system.

That is the reason why, when the eBay Money Back Guarantee in the US a few years ago we decided to limits our sales to Australian customers.

[i-once-was-bump]

BT you say it is in the resolution centre and you are waiting to hear from ebay, you do realise it is up to you to reply to the resolution centre and provide those documents that TB1 listed? You only have a limited time to respond or the case will be closed in favour of the buyer.

Please check when the case will be automatically closed.

[lyndal1838]

I agree with Bump here.   Ebay and paypal disputes are quite different and the time frames are very specific and absolute....no extensions are granted.

As ebay disputes are so new it is a bit more difficult to give accurate advice....mainly what is available on the site only as not many of us have had experience of the process.

Just be very sure to read all the instructions carefully and adhere to the time limits given to you.