I have a feeling we fell for a scam - buyer claiming counterfeit on a genuine very expensive item

[bright_tomato]

I have listed my husband's very expensive phone (it's over $5000 brand new) and finally sold it at best offer for only $1300, much less than what we were hoping to get. But we really needed the money. I took all precautions - took very detailed photos, sent the buyer the IMEI number  and tracking number, insured the phone for $1300 when posted. She received the phone and literally the next day I receive a message that she believes the phone to be a copy or a fake. I am in a state of shock, I am not a retailer, I only sell my own second-hand goods and this phone was a gift from a close friend of my husband's. There is absolutely no chance that it is fake or a copy. She didn't even investigate,  i suggested that she takes the phone to a TAG store to check and she completely ignored that. I have a feeling this is a scam artist who is now requesting a return for refund and will send us back a fake phone to scam us.

My questions is, does anyone has any experience with what kind of process ebay/pay pal follows when a buyer claims the item to be fake? I listed the item with "no returns accepted" condition so I am also wondering - am I able to reject her return request?

[bright_tomato]

Please see image of what my resolution centre says - it actually has no fields where I can enter information now or attach any documents. Perhaps the process has changed again? I might give them a call again tomorrow to clarify.

[cherry*135]

tall bearded wrote:

 you are the view that this dispute involves either buyer or carrier fraud ‘you revoke all previous authorities which eBay may try to use to access your PayPal account’

Can sellers do that? When you use eBay & Paypal you agree to all their terms,conditions, policies. You just can't revoke them later.

[cherry*135]

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@i-love-my-sheep wrote:

I'm wondering, given the sad state of affairs this refund thing is, whether for high ticket, high risk items, like phones, whether it would be worth taking it to the PO and packing it there in view of the postmaster and having a stat dec available to sign saying what went into the box?

Of course if your PO is a busy one you'd have to pick your time when it's a bit quieter, but it could work?

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That is way beyond the duties of AP staff/Postmaster. I can't see them wanting to be involved, or have any responsiblity as to contents of customers parcels. They would also have to be involved later, if any dispute arose between buyer and seller.

[tall_bearded01]

Of course you can.

The User Agreement is a contract, and there is no such thing as a one sided contract.  That is, for any contract to be valid both parties must equally benefit from it, and it is hard to envisage what benefit the seller derives from the eBay Money Back Guarantee, especially, because it requires the seller to contract out of some very significant legislated and common law rights without receiving a benefit of equal or greater value in return.  These are legal principles well known to the ombudsman.

Furthermore, if any party to a contract has fails or refuses to abide any obligation contained within it, the other part can revoke all or part of the contract.  That is, yes the seller agreed to allow eBay to make a decision, and yes they agreed to allow eBay to access their PayPal account if the decision went against them, but implicate in that agreement is the seller will be afforded due process, nature justice and that a decision will only be made when the buyers claim has properly investigated and that they will only deduct the money from the seller's account if a bona-fide right to recovery exists.

So where does PayPal fit in.  You can’t lodge a complaint to the FOS regarding something eBay has done, as the ombudsman’s jurisdiction is limited to member financial institutes and eBay is not a financial institution, let alone member.  So the easiest way to get the FOS involved is to put what is  in effect is a second hold on the funds, so that neither party that (eBay or the seller) can get their hand on them until the seller agrees to the outcome, or the matter has been judicially decided.

So here is what can happen. 

Once the authorities have been revoked, PayPal can hold the funds until someone with judicial powers tells them hand them over, be it to the seller or eBay.

Or they can simply return the funds to the seller, in which case eBay can initiate a debit recovery action against the seller, during which they (eBay) will have to prove, to the judicial standard that a right of recover exists,  against the background where the seller can prove, to the same judicial standard, no right to recover exists.

Or they can, contrary to the express instructions by the seller, hand the money to the eBay, and if they do that, then they have made decision which falls with the ombudsman’s jurisdiction, something which, in all likelihood eBay would very much like to avoid.

[bright_tomato]

Hi Guys,

Sorry, it's me again. I have filled out the stat decs and phoned ebay to ask where I can upload some supporting documentation. The reply astonished me - they informed me that I need to call ebay Canada customer support and discuss this with them because the dispute was opened on the Canadian site. I said that as far as I am aware I have a trading agreement with ebay Australia, not ebay canada. I asked if I can email the documents to them and get those transferred to the ebay Canada resolution centre somehow. the response was the usual robotic repetition of  the same thing over and over - no, it is your responsibility to call Canada.

So is my only option to call ebay Canada at 11 pm at night at my own expense on international call charges? This is outrageous and unbelievable. I cannot understand how these people are allowed to operate like this in Australia.

If anyone has any thoughts how I can deal with this next hurdle, please let me know. Everyone's help and advice will be greatly appreciated.

[ausbargainbasement]

Hi,

yes that is correct when a overseaes buyer opens a dispute it is on the Ebay site of the country of the buyer, just follow the prompts and you will be taken to the case on their Ebay site, then upload your supporting evidence there.

Cheers

[mbselections00]

BT, I have followed this thread and unfortunately have nothing knowledgeable or constructive I can say in answer to your question, but I'm sure someone will pop their head in with the correct information.

Well, isn't that just lovely of eBay.au to be soooo helpful - so much for any Seller loyalty or support !  Says a whole lot doesn't it ?

I'm following on the sidelines and wishing you the very best of luck.  I do believe in what goes around, comes around & karma though, lol, so although it may be a long drawn out process, hopefully you will win in the end

Good luck

[mbselections00]

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@ausbargainbasement wrote:

Hi,

yes that is correct when a overseaes buyer opens a dispute it is on the Ebay site of the country of the buyer, just follow the prompts and you will be taken to the case on their Ebay site, then upload your supporting evidence there.

Cheers

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Geeez, why couldn't eBay.au have told BT that ??????

[lyndal1838]

I suggest you go to the Canadian boards and ask them if there is a FreeCall number similar to our 1800 number, although it may not accept calls from outside Canada.

If the dispute has been opened on the Canadian site does that mean that you are now subject to their rules...if so, do you know if they are different to the Australian site rules?

[clarry100]

I just logged into the Canadian ebay site which anybodty can do and looked up the help number there.

The number given is:

866-278-6361 This would be a toll free number from withing Canada so not sure if/not you can call it from Aust.

Canada is country code = 1 same as USA.

So the full number woud be 0011-1-866-278-6361

If the toll free number does not work then we would have to find a regular landline number.

Do you have a VOIP phone service at home by chance. If so then calls made this way are very cheap.