I have a feeling we fell for a scam - buyer claiming counterfeit on a genuine very expensive item

[bright_tomato]

I have listed my husband's very expensive phone (it's over $5000 brand new) and finally sold it at best offer for only $1300, much less than what we were hoping to get. But we really needed the money. I took all precautions - took very detailed photos, sent the buyer the IMEI number  and tracking number, insured the phone for $1300 when posted. She received the phone and literally the next day I receive a message that she believes the phone to be a copy or a fake. I am in a state of shock, I am not a retailer, I only sell my own second-hand goods and this phone was a gift from a close friend of my husband's. There is absolutely no chance that it is fake or a copy. She didn't even investigate,  i suggested that she takes the phone to a TAG store to check and she completely ignored that. I have a feeling this is a scam artist who is now requesting a return for refund and will send us back a fake phone to scam us.

My questions is, does anyone has any experience with what kind of process ebay/pay pal follows when a buyer claims the item to be fake? I listed the item with "no returns accepted" condition so I am also wondering - am I able to reject her return request?

[bright_tomato]

Just an update on my case (sorry, people must be bored of seeing this thread constantly). Here is a reply from ebay I received today:

SNAD - GS%A00012 | Important Case Update: Hold SR# 1-41698439557

Hello Slava,

I'm writing you today regarding the TAG Heuer Meridiist Mobile Phone (181623289581)that you recently sold. I understand your customer opened a case because the phone is not authentic. It has to be tough to have a case opened up against you, so I would be happy to assist you with working on getting your case resolved.  

After reviewing the case details, I understand your concerns about the customer's complaint, so I have asked the customer to provide additional documentation. I have put the case on hold until 1/17/2015 to allow time to provide us with an appraisal.

I've asked for the item to be examined by the manufacturer or an authorized dealer. This information will be used to confirm and validate the customer's complaint. If the documentation is provided, I'll review it carefully before making a decision. If we have not received this information by 1/17/2015 we will assume a resolution has been reached and the case will be closed without a refund.  I'll be in contact within 48 hours (by 1/19/2015) after the hold ends.

We always want to be partners with our members to make sure your case is resolved quickly and fairly.

We appreciate your understanding regarding this matter.

Thanks,

Robin E.

High Value Claims

eBay Customer Support

-------------------------------------------------------------

I did reply to the email asking if I could email some documents in support of my case. BUT I am just seriously praying and hoping that the thief will not be able to make the deadline of submitting any official documentation by the 17/1 even if he tries. Unless they manage to falsify appraisal documents too.

[chrisco62]

no documents to falsify, buyer takes fake phone for appraisal.

[clarry100]

Yes I'm sure he will take the fake phone into some place (perhaps TAG) and of course it will fail the verification process.

Then it will come down to the other evidence you provide such as the sworn stat decs that you did not send any fake.

In the end it will be him saying he has proof he received a fake and your stat decs prooving you did not send a fake. Can't see how they can rule against you in this. He may get his refund but not from your funds.

If you could get hold of the IMEI number from his fake that would tell a story. Perhaps that will be on whatever report he gets. That should be able to tell where the phone was originally sold. If that is nowhere near anywhere you have been then yes.... On the other hand the IMEI your have from the real phone will have your story all over it. That will have to tilt the result into your favour I would think.

Good luck and I watch out for your updates with great interest as I'm sure many others do on here.

[tall_bearded01]

Document to falsify.

Because of the way this dispute has been set up, before eBay can make any decision they must first obtain a sworn statement for the buyer attesting to the fact that the phone handed over for inspection is the phone he received from this seller. 

Bright-Tomato I suggest you send something like the following to eBay Canada with an info copy to PayPal Australia and eBay Australia.

In response to your last correspondence we advise as follows.

The item was purchased from a listing contained on the eBay Australia site therefore Australian law applies to this transaction.

The relevant legislation is the ‘Sales of Goods Act’, which in so far as is relevant provides that where a buyer buys goods with the intention of having them delivered by carrier (and Australia Post and its Canadian equivalent fall within that definition) then risk passes to the buyer at the time the item was first handed to the carrier.  This is usually referred to as deemed delivery, whereby handing it to the carrier has the same legal effect as if the item had been handed to the buyer.  That is, for the purposes of this transaction delivery occurred in Australia, not Canada.

You will note we have already brought into existence a sworn statement that the item contained in the listing is the item which was handed to the carrier.

The buyer has already provided us and you with a photograph which they say was the item they received.  The item in the photograph is clearly not the item as contained in our listing. This gives rise to two possibilities.  Either the buyer did receive the phone we sent and substituted another for the purposes of this dispute, or the package was interfered with whilst the item was in transit with our phone being substituted with another.

We therefore strongly suggest that, in all the circumstances, you are now obliged to demand of the buyer that they provide a sworn statement that the phone they claim they received and are handing up for inspection is the actual phone that was contained in the package that was sent by us.

Finally, whether not whether the buyer has made a false claim or the package was interfered with whilst in transit is for the purposes of this claim irrelevant.  What is relevant is that you have proof that the item as contained in the listing was handed to the carrier -our sworn statement - and as there is clear evidence I had been handed to the carrier, if it was substituted at some later time, it was substituted when it was at the buyer’s risk.

In any event, as the potential for carrier substitution exists, and as the package and contentment’s were fully insured, it stands to reason that the first step is for the buyer to lodge a claim with the insurer (the carrier) with any such claim being supported by the buyers sworn statement referred to above, and that no further action be undertaken in connection with the buyers claim under the your guarantee until the insurer has made their decision.

[bright_tomato]

Perfectly put, thank you so much again for your invaluable help.

I still have a problem though, I still have not provided a stat dec to them as I can't even attach it in a reply to the message they sent above.. there is no attachment option. The same ebay customer service officer did call me today as he promised (lovely man) but the apporpriate department closed early. He promised to phone back tomorrow 2 hrs earlier.

[cherry*135]

tall bearded - have you or any other eBay seller you know - actually been through the processes you recommend and obtained a successful outcome?

[tall_bearded01]

Its eBay’s site and eBay’s dispute resolution process. 

Therefore it is incumbent on them to provide both applicant and respondent with something as basic as a pathway which allows for the exchange of documents, and the fact its now taken two days without a solution speaks volumes as to the systemic issues in play here

Solution  - Someone  at eBay Canada opens a Gmail account, gives you the address you send them an email using that account with documents attached.  You then sent the originals to EBay Australia, and it’s then up to them to get them to their sister Canadian company, if they want them.

If they have a problems I can introduce them to my five year old grand niece who can set it up them in five minutes flat.

[tall_bearded01]

Though the dispute is being decided by eBay Canada, if you read my earlier posts, you will see that dispute is being managed in such a way as to bring it with the jurisdiction of Australian Financial Ombudsman Service, and yes I do have experience when it comes to advising people how to formulate disputes to be lodged with that service.

That is, this is all a fact harvesting exercise which will come into play if/when the complaint if filed with the ombudsman.

So what facts have been harvested to date?  The big one is the eBay’s dispute resolution process is so antiquated and inadequate that it doesn’t cater for something as basic as the orderly production and passage (disclosure) of documents.  Other facts that I think will be harvested in the near future are, the people handing the dispute resolution process are neither trained nor qualified competent to perform the task, that the seller is being denied procedural fairness, and that the outcome will be self-serving with little if any regard to the evidence.  For instance I doubt they will oblige the buyer to provide a sworn statement, yet in any judicial proceedings be it here or in Canada such a statement would be considered mandatory before any decision is made

Put those fact before any judicial or quasi-judicial authority in Australia and stand back and they'll be falling over eachother to get thier to be first in line.

[i-love-my-sheep]

I know it's already been said several times, but the buyer should have to provide the unique IMEI number. Surely that would speed this whole,ordeal up?

[bakeandfry]

Bright tomato wrote: ~~
Unless they manage to falsify appraisal documents too.~~
Unless both phones have same IMEI ( pffft) cant falsify that. No wonder the buyer wont supply the number.