International Sales and Refunds - I quit.

[lupercal]

I really tried to find a solution to this.

These days I mostly sell CDs, and a lot of them go overseas. They go at large letter rate for about $9, and there is no tracking available with that service: you have to use parcel rates. And too often they apparently don't arrive, and the buyer opens a case against me, and I just refund everything and try to be philosophical and  put it down to 'breakage'.

But I had a $85 CD allegedly not arrive recently, which I shrugged and refunded. So I started putting a line in all my auctions pointing out that tracking would cost extra, and to ask me for a quote if it were desired.  Ebay thought this was a good idea, and encouraged me to do it.  And a guy in Sweden bought a CD, and I sent him this message:

    "As I mentioned in the description, there is no tracking available on international CDs at this postage rate. I'm ok with that, provided you agree I'm not responsible if it goes missing after posting. I can arrange tracking, but it adds about $15 to the postage - I'd need to check. You probably won't want it, but I make a point of offering."

And he said "it's ok", with a smiley emoticon - go ahead without the tracking.

And now he's opened a case against me, and I've had to refund it all anyway.

Meanwhile I have a $75 CD sitting here waiting to go to Colorado, and I just made the same offer to the buyer, and he declined the tracking and said to go ahead without it. And  to hell with it - I'm going to pay the extra money for parcel rate and tracking myself, because I'm not eating another $85 on this one. 

Most of my CD's I only make a few bucks on. This happens, and I have to sell a dozen more to recoup the 'breakage'.   I'll have to sell another few cheap ones to cover the out of pocket tracking on this one.

I could make tracking mandatory, but from memory that ends up being about $23 depending on destination - add another $2 to cover the commission on the extra postage - and nobody is going to buy a $8 CD with $25 postage.

I've established that  making it optional is futile.

So I'm not actually asking for advice. I'm just registering the fact that I quit. To hell with it. No more overseas sales on CDs without tracking. Which means no more overseas sales, since nobody would be willing to pay that much.  I've tried to be as up-front with people about this as I can, but clearly a written agreement not to hold me responsible ends up counting for nothing, even when Ebay told me it was a great idea.

I don't need you to say anything; I'm just writing this as an alternative to banging my head against the wall

[davewil1964]

I would never send anything valuable without tracking.

The buyers would know that they're covered by the eBay MBG, so why would they opt to pay extra? For those sorts of items, build tracking into the postage price. If they don't like it, they won't buy. If they do, they are genuine.

However, on ANY platform you sell on, you are likely to be accepting Paypal payments for foreign transactions. As such, Paypal's buyer protection will apply, which requires proof of posting. Which would generally be tracking and a lodgement receipt.

My advice would be to stop trying to cut corners. neither eBay nor Paypal will consider your disclaimer worth the keyboard its written on. $15 extra for postage on a $85 item, might or might not be a dealbreaker for the buyer, but it certainly shouldn't break you.

You could add the tracking to those items you can't afford to lose on. I have a $20 limit. Anything over that goes tracked. If that means I make less profit, that is online life.

Don't slam the door.

[kopenhagen5]

I don't need you to say anything; I'm just writing this as an alternative to banging my head against the wall

Good choice. 

As dave suggests, make it work for you or don't do it. 

[lupercal]

Actually, it can. I recently sold a CD for $69 with a net profit after commissions of $14. Take off another $15 in extra postage and tracking and I'm paying to sell it. Sure, my profit margin is often larger than that, but I don't see much incentive to start routinely coughing up another $15 costs on $75 CDs. I sometimes sell some very valuable ones, and then it becomes a no brainer, but those are pretty few and far between. The more obvious solution AFAIC is simply to stop selling overseas.

...sorry, while I was writing that, you ammended your answer to be pretty much in line with what I just wrote.

[davewil1964]

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@lupercal wrote:

Actually, it can. I recently sold a CD for $69 with a net profit after commissions of $14. Take off another $15 in extra postage and tracking and I'm paying to sell it. Sure, my profit margin is often larger than that, but I don't see much incentive to start routinely coughing up another $15 costs on $75 CDs. I sometimes sell some very valuable ones, and then it becomes a no brainer, but those are pretty few and far between. The more obvious solution AFAIC is simply to stop selling overseas.

...sorry, while I was writing that, you ammended your answer to be pretty much in line with what I just wrote.

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I knew I was good, but I didn't realise I could amend stuff half an hour later. When the edit function is only available for 5 minutes.

If I was buying to sell, I wouldn't be paying retail for my stock. And I don't. If, however, I buy to read, then decide I don't want to keep, that is a different scenario, and anything I can get back over half (which is what a 2nd hand bookshop will give me) is a bonus.

[lupercal]

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@davewil1964 wrote:

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@lupercal wrote:

...sorry, while I was writing that, you ammended your answer to be pretty much in line with what I just wrote.

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I knew I was good, but I didn't realise I could amend stuff half an hour later. When the edit function is only available for 5 minutes.

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You probably did edit it within 5 minutes; I just had the message open for a long time while replying.

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@davewil1964 wrote:

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If I was buying to sell, I wouldn't be paying retail for my stock. And I don't. If, however, I buy to read, then decide I don't want to keep, that is a different scenario, and anything I can get back over half (which is what a 2nd hand bookshop will give me) is a bonus.

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I don't  pay retail, and I did pay a lot more for that item than I usually would. It was... a tactical purchase;it made sense in the long run.

[purplemon18]

I know you don't want advice, but just start charging for tracking. 1 international sale a month with the buyer paying for shipping is better than no sales. Also, ask yourself what you would pay for tracking, and charge them the difference.

[eol-products]

If you can get it the maximum Mypost discount a 500gram US parcel with tracking is $18 and insurance is included up to $100. 

[davewil1964]

The maximum MyPost discount is based on how many transactions? 5 a week like domestic? And a requirement to pay full freight until you hit the threshold?

Not necessarily a viable option.

[eol-products]

They don't make it easy compared to when it started when they gave you the minimum discount for the first 8 weeks.