Item said Not recieved Ebay/Paypal Charge Back

[queenslander-one]

I have today had a Paypal chargeback for an item said not recieved by Ebay/Paypal. Have advised the FOS as Paypal under Ebay's instruction have removed money from my account when I had Proof of Postage. (Photograph of item correctly addressed and Postmarked by my Postmaster. Waiting to hear the outcome.

Copy of my response to Ebay/Paypals removal of funds below.

Hi I sent the buyer a photo of the item posted at the Post office on the 5th Feb to his Paypal Address (Please see my Ebay emails sent) or can supply again to Ebay.

Also under Australian law item 101 of Australia post rules. 101 Articles carried by post to be taken to be Australia Post’s property.

Quote For the purpose of any legal proceeding or action in relation to an article carried by post or under the control of Australia Post, the article shall be taken to be, while it is being carried by post or under the control of Australia Post, the property of Australia Post.

In Australia, the seller is not legally responsible for delivery, only postage, therefore proof of postage is what is required Also under Paypal rules.

What is proof of shipment? • The date the item was sent; and

•An official acceptance by the shipper, such as a postmark or online status. (Status that shows the item was delivered is also acceptable.) It must also include either: •The recipient’s delivery address, showing at least the state, city and postcode (or international equivalent); or •A receipt from Australia Post showing at least the recipient’s suburb, city or postcode (or international equivalent).

If money is removed by Ebay from my Paypal account over this correctly sent item I WILL be lodging a complaint with the Financial Services Ombudsman. Ebay if it wants to provide an insurance service for so called non delivered items can but not at my expense.

Will see how I fair

[joethenuts]

look i understand what he is saying   i just wanted him to answere what he would do if he did not get the parcel,,,,,

at the end of the day as we all are registered to ebay policy and they say if you dont get your article you will get a full refund including delivery  and that cost will come out from the seller which it did    and at the end of the day mr beard does not uderstand as he has a zero on his feed back is that the buyer will give you a red dot , your first sale a red dot mmmmmmmmmm

[joethenuts]

simple question i have asked you a lot of times to tell me about what happens to your $8 purchase ,i dont want you to explain it in 100 words just one word ,  also i dont understand is there a difference between the buyer or the seller aranging the courier   thanks  joe

[tall_bearded01]

If the seller allows pickup but you choose by preference or necessity (live too far away) to have it delivered, if I have proof I posted it, but you fail to receive it, legally the problem is yours.

On the other hand if you buy from as seller who stipulates in their listing “No Pick up Allowed” even though the seller can prove postage, you are entitled to a refund.

As for the rest, they are irrelevant.  That is, fact that my dishes are still wet is because I didn't get the tea towel is irrelevant .  The fact that the post was a separate compost of the same transact, or in fact that it may have been included as part of the total cost is irrelevant.  The only thing that is relevant is the sellers TOS and how the relevant legislation applies to them.

As to how I arrived at this conclusions please refer back to my earlier posts.

[imastawka]

                                   

[joethenuts]

well at least you answered my question   but i am afraid your books are not worth the paper there writen on because on this site ebay says the buyer is entilted to a refund if they dont get the goods 

and to mr bears you say the buyer can tell the seller which carrier he prefers  of course the buyer would have to pay for it ,well how many sellers would agree to that ,a lot of sellers work thru there home if a buyer says ok on wednesday from 8 to 5pm my courier of my choice bla bla will pick up the parcel from your address  , do you think sellers are going to stay home the whole day or take off the day of work so that they can give the parcel to the driver by hand     , thats why sellers use aus post or there own courier and send them all together all there parcels..

[rick2u]

So how do we the seller who now offers pickup use this information to protect ourselves from ebays policy and the associated black marks if we don't co operate with the demands to refund the money it have it taken from our paypal accounts ! I have had claims yet not one reply to any buyer I have contacted meaning any onus of proof of anything had been dumped on me ! Who is it that should pay for the return of the defective (if that's the claim) goods if my t and c says the seller must pay if I ask to have the good returned and if I agree they are faulty I will refund that postage to them - I meant target insist you return any faulty goods before they will refund or replace and that is only reasonable !! Thanks in advance

[joethenuts]

the more sellers that offer free pick ups the better   too many shifty sellers and buyers out there trying to get or sell things for free.

i think why a lot of sellers dont do free pick ups is a few years back sellers were undercharging for there products and overcharging the delivery  so free pick ups was not an option .

[tall_bearded01]

Nowhere in the eBay policy does it state that, because the item was sold on the eBay site, the seller forgoes their deemed delivery rights.

What you seem to be doing is confusing the eBay Money Back Guarantee to be a seller’s guarantee.  It is not.

The eBay Money Back Guarantee clearly states if the item is not received, they, eBay, guarantee to refund the buyer, using their, eBay’s, own funds; and where, and if, and only if, a right to recovery exists, they will deduct the cost of the buyers claim from the sellers PayPal account.

Now, in practice, deemed delivery notwithstanding, eBay will determine if a right to recover exists  purely on the basis of if there is evidence that the buyer actually received the goods.  However the seller is not bound by that decision.  That is, they can have it reviewed by an external judicial body (such as the FOS), at which point what eBay says they’ll accept as proof of delivery becomes irrelevant.  What becomes relevant is the principles as outlined in my posts - with the early indications being, as soon as the decision is challenged externally, eBay conceded the application.

Now this will continue on into the foreseeable future until the relevant regulatory bodies (ACCC, APRA, Consumer Affairs etc.) get sick of receiving complaints, at which time, as they did with PayPal Buyer Protection, they will suggest to eBay that they might like to reword the Guarantee so it more clearly defines what delivery means for the purposes Guarantee – that is proof of postage is proof of delivery.  Now these kinds of suggestions really mean, do it or else.  

[joethenuts]

in this case if you look at the first posting the buyer was refunded and the seller had that amount taqken from his account ,,  ok then a lot later ebay said for this time only we will give you the seller there money back ,

so what you are saying is that this is ilegal what ebay is doing.

mate if the law was as simple as reading a book  then we would not have courts or judges as there is  sides to a story and i am afraid proof is one of the hardest things to prove , if you think sending a letter thru aus post is proof well then you should read a few more books    because this post is about an envelope  that a buyer did not recieve ,

[its only the other day my asked my wife can i have have the 100 i lent you the other day and she said what 100   .lol

[joethenuts]

anyway mr beard thanks for all your help  ,

have you tryed being a politician  you would be good at it ,the intervier would ask you a simple question for a yes or no and you would come with a 1000 word esay   good on you        thanks  joe