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on โ01-11-2014 01:08 PM
I am a casual eBay seller basically just selling my unwanted items (mainly collectables). I have ended all my items so that I can assess the impact of the new money back guarantee policy. If I only sell items for 'Pickup Only' (either by cash or paypal), does the new policy still apply even though I make sure the buyer is fully satisfied with the item on pickup?
Regards
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on โ18-01-2015 11:43 AM
@Anonymous wrote:Im confused, on a legal level my daughter is a lawyer so I can ask her sorry tb, I just want to know how can ebay be responsible for funds held if paypal are holding the funds? Ebay couldn't hold funds because they are not a financial institution and if paypal is no longer part of ebay then they have no right to hold funds on the advice of a third party being ebay unless the claim is put through paypal directly by the purchaser, this is where the money back guarantee is very grey.
That would be my undertanding of it, and if I were to raise any claims (other than NPB) I would do so in paypal, I think eBay's process is confusing, misunderstood, and on most levels more grey areas than black and white.
Half the time, eBay don't know how it works, so it must be a real mess for any seller's or buyer's to figure out !
You can't please all the people all the time, so now I just please myself
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on โ18-01-2015 11:43 AM
@2106greencat wrote:
People, we can't all be experts on all things, some of us will know more about one thing than another, and together, hopefully a members questions can be answered.
But some think they are an expert on all things and there in lies the problem...... I think when it comes to legal matters, I am more inclined to listen to people who are trained and have experience in legal matters, rather than someone who knows how to punch a few keywords into google and find information to back up their claims. After all, you wouldn't go to a mechanic if you needed a liver transplant.
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on โ18-01-2015 11:46 AM
lol Greencat ...
Yes agree - but many others again see it for what it is - mean and nasty interpersonal carp
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on โ18-01-2015 11:47 AM
The problem with that sheep, is what is classed as Legal in the country, is usually hell and gone from what is classed as 'protocol' on eBay, and with paypal and TPTB, and this is where things get rediculously confusing.
I mean, who the hell want's to go through some long legal process to ensure they get paid, or receive items they have simply purhcased on line, it is a farce.
You can't please all the people all the time, so now I just please myself
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โ18-01-2015 11:49 AM - edited โ18-01-2015 11:50 AM
@i-love-my-sheep wrote:
@2106greencat wrote:
People, we can't all be experts on all things, some of us will know more about one thing than another, and together, hopefully a members questions can be answered.
But some think they are an expert on all things and there in lies the problem...... I think when it comes to legal matters, I am more inclined to listen to people who are trained and have experience in legal matters, rather than someone who knows how to punch a few keywords into google and find information to back up their claims. After all, you wouldn't go to a mechanic if you needed a liver transplant.
Yes, there is a danger that people will follow TBs advice (a zero feedback poster) without giving the matter proper consideration or seeking professional advice particularly those members that rely on eBay income.
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โ18-01-2015 11:50 AM - edited โ18-01-2015 11:52 AM
@thecatspjs wrote:lol Greencat ...
Yes agree - but many others again see it for what it is - mean and nasty interpersonal carp
You soon get to know the id's that are involved in the mean and nasty, I don't have to tell you that.
I know my favourite few, and tend to ignore, but sometimes it just get's he better of me LOL
pssst cats....TB was a seller BTW, a while ago, but he has been there, done that, most likely thinkingn he is well out of it now (as do I)
You can't please all the people all the time, so now I just please myself
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on โ18-01-2015 12:01 PM
Thanks Greencat
Kinda makes it worse that a seller that hides behind a zero feedback ID, would take it upon themselves to advise other sellers to take a particular action when there may be unknown ramifications by doing so.
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on โ18-01-2015 12:09 PM
Thanks for that, I will keep a copy and if a problem should arise I shall give it to my daughter. Frankly ebay should be like a Westfield, you pay your rent, sell your stuff and as long as Westfield gets your rent they stay out of your face.
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on โ18-01-2015 07:28 PM
The way I see it, it works this way.
When you list on eBay you create a contract where you agree, amongst other things, that, if you fall within what they (eBay) define as a high risk seller, you allow PayPal to limit access to your account, and they have been very liberal โ in fact too liberal - in defining who is a high risk seller is. For instance where the policy identifies sellers with a limited sales history as falling within the definition, eBay staff interpret that to mean any new account, including new accounts opened by already established sellers with a proven track record. However that contract cuts both ways. That is, there is no such thing as a one sided contract. To be valid both sides must benefit from it.
But simply limiting access achieves little. That is, aside from maybe getting a bit of extra interest whilst the funds are on hold, limiting a sellerโs access to their funds actually achieves very little - enter the eBay Money Back Guarantee, which coincidently came into existence at about the same time.
Now unlike PayPal Buyer Protection, where refunds are limited to where the buyer can establish a right to recover, the eBay Money Back Guarantee actually underwrites the buyerโs risk inherent with distance trading. That is, it is a form of insurance whereas PayPal is not. Now ordinarily, if an insurer, having paid a claim believes a right of recovery exists, and if the person from whom they attempting to recover say no, then the only way they can get the other party to pay up is to prove the existence of the debt by taking them to court.
However eBay have found another way. Make it a further condition of listing on the site that, if the buyer makes a claim, and if eBay finds for the buyer, and if having paid they claim they believe a right of recovery exists, they can reimburse themselves for monies contained in the sellers PayPal account. No need to prove the existence of a right to recover as a simple assertion to that effect will suffice. Again, there is no such thing as a one sided contract. To be valid both sides must benefit from it and it is difficult to find any benefit that the seller obtains from this process.
So why go to all this trouble when PayPal Buyer Protection did pretty much the same thing. The biggest flaw in PayPal Buyer Protection (from eBayโs perspective that is) was the ease with which a seller could dispute the decision that a right of recover existed โ simply file a complaint with the ombudsman and let them decide, with in most cases the outcome being the decision was overturned. Then, as more and more seller became aware of their right to dispute, there was an ever increasing requirement for PayPal to resolve buyer claims by making discretionary payments.
The eBay Money Back Guarantee solved this problem. That is, though PayPal is holding the funds itโs eBay whoโs making the decision and as it is eBay who has made the decision, and as eBay is not a financial instruction, the ombudsman had been taken out of the loop.
So how do you get the ombudsman involved when the whole process is designed to exclude them? Force PayPal to make a decision and it is that decision you dispute. Now Iโve shown you one way to do it. If someone has a better idea Iโm all ears.
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โ18-01-2015 08:18 PM - edited โ18-01-2015 08:22 PM
So Paypal don't hand over your money.
So instead eBay seek to recover funds by charging you via seller invoice.
You don't pay.
Your eBay account is restricted for non-payment.

