NO RETURNS ACCEPTED before Nov 1st

[camside777]

I completed a contract with a buyer and this was done before the November 1st Returns Policy came into effect and became mandatory.

The buyer bought a bracelet for $430 with buy it now days before Nov 1st. On Nov 1st they contacted me telling a heap of lies about the item and asked for a refund. I refused because my description was above board and accurate.  They then opened a dispute against me with pay pal. after going to the pay pal resolution centre to look at the case I was asked to responfd to the buyer.

On the resolution or dispute page ... there were three options I could use to settle the dispute. I chose the one to do with a partial refund. I thought at the time that me offering the buyer a partial refund would mean that if they accepted my offer , they would return the bracelet and I would then pay them the partial refund. However because of the obscurity of this option I made the wrong choice and pay pal refunded the buyer $350  putting my pay pal account in the red ... plus the buyer got to keep the bracelet. I was reimbursed $80.. so the way I see it I have given the buyer $350 and the bracelet, so am I out of pocket by a considerable amount or what? my head is still spinning from this... has the buyer got the bracelet for $80 instead of the original $430 which was paid to me by the buyer. I contacted the buyer through ebay email asking that should they accept my offer of a partial refund they send the bracelet back using registered post with tracking. they did not respond. instead I find they have been paid by pay pal and  I then receive two emails from pay pal later on .. one saying case such and such has been completed and pay pal have decided in favour of the buyer and they have been refunded and your balance is negative, please resolve your negative balance by logging in to your pay pal account ... and the email before that saying the buyer has escalated this dispute to a claim. were reviewing all messages related to the case in the resolution center and need some additional information from you. .. It was after this email that I visited the resolution centre and made one of the biggest mistakes of my life. pay pal and I had a row because they didnt give a damn about me and my loss. eBay were no help either after I explained to them that the contract was done before  Nov 1st which should have gone in my favour and not that of the buyer. I have had an exausting day speaking to eBay and pay pal with no resolve.

Am I within my legal rights to refuse a refund to the buyer seeing as the contract was made before the Return Policy came into effect on Nov 1st? eBay refuse to acknowledge that fact. I have been terribly wronged.

Hoping to hear from you

Regards

Ann

[cherry*135]

Did the buyer open a Paypal claim for item Significantly Not As Described? If they did that the date of 1 November is not relevant to the claim.

 Although that doesn't account for the fact the buyer was able to keep the bracelet.

[digital*ghost · Accepted solution]

Sorry to see a misunderstanding has wound up costing you so much - I'm afraid I really don't know if you have any recourse with the buyer at this point, I doubt that you would with PayPal just on the fact that even if the partial refund was accepted in error, the liability for the error probably wouldn't rest with PayPal (unless it was their fault), and as the dispute process was handled via PayPal, eBay won't be able to do anything at all. 

Just to clarify a couple of things, the eBay return policy applies more specifically to not as decribed - it's not mandatory to accept change of mind returns, but any return policy and conditions you have in place won't apply if the buyer says that an item is not as described (for example, when I list stuff on this ID, I set my listings to 'no returns accepted', and further clarify that while it means I won't take items back if the buyer changes their mind, I'm still happy - and, of course, technically obligated - to provide a solution should there be a problem with an item).

This is actually all true and applicable to sales before and after November 1st - a buyer has always had the facility to open a dispute for not as described, the difference now is that it can be done via eBay, not just PayPal - but eBay and their policies regarding returns don't have any part in a PayPal dispute; the two processes are completely independent of one another.

I'm not 100% sure I understand what your intentions were with the refund process (eg did you mean to give the buyer an $80 or $350 refund, on the onus that the bracelet was returned?).

I think, at this stage, the best thing you can do is speak to someone who would know whether you would be able to try and get the bracelet back from the buyer (I suspect the best shot you would have at acheiving that, though, would be to refund them in full, so that they have not paid any money for the item at all - I am in no way well versed in the law, though, so I am just speculating).

[sueken4812]

Ring Pay Pal, if you can't get any sense from them.  Take the matter to the Financial Ombudsman.

[lyndal1838]

I don't understand your logic in giving the buyer a partial refund and expecting the bracelet to be returned to you.

Why did you think that it was OK for the buyer to be out of pocket at all?

I suspect that is the reason the buyer escalated the claim....they knew they would get a full refund though paypal.  But they should have returned the bracelet.

[digital*ghost]

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@sueken4812 wrote:

Ring Pay Pal, if you can't get any sense from them.  Take the matter to the Financial Ombudsman.

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I'm not sure either would be able to do anything in this case, since the decision regarding the refund was made by the seller (albeit in error). The case was resolved in the buyer's favour because the seller - by virtue of selecting the option to issue a partial refund - effectively accepted the buyer's claim (which, in PayPal's eyes, means the seller accepts the item wasn't as described).

[jensmanchester-australia]

I am sorry to hear this Ann but unfortunately it was your mistake so there is very little you can about the situation.

I still don't understand why you would expect a buyer to accept a partial refund and then return the bracelet to you.

If you were sure the item was described correctly the option you should have chosen in Paypal was to dispute the buyers claim which would have enabled you to present your side of the story and then it would have been up to Paypal to make a decision as to whether or not it was as described.

[justkidzbiz · Accepted solution]

I think what the seller thought was, that by offering a partial refund, buyer gets part of the money back and then once the seller  received the bracelet back, she would refund the balance.

[i-love-my-sheep]

As a buyer, I wouldn't accept those terms. How would I know the seller was going to refund the difference?

[camside777]

Thank you for replying ... I am most grateful for your advice. I am happy to say that Pay pal reimbursed me the full amount as a good will gesture, which I was most grateful for.

Cheers

Ann