New Pay Pal FEE ??

[masterstroke.eng]

How the hell does this happen !  PAY PAL allows  a person to  use a third party credit card to pay for goods on ebay ,then  buyer fraudulently claims not authorised  . I have lost postage  ,cost  of item EBAY FEES   And on top of that get charged. $15 for the charge back  I had the buyers Phone number so I called my customer by he said he received item   ,and was very confused when I challenged him regarding  the bank charge back  and would cont the bank ( obviously got caught out and couldn't come up with a good excuse)   It was a CD which i sent  posted in a large letter  so no tracking total cost of sale incuding postage $7.50

[clarry100]

Very often the buyer has no idea the chargeback has even occurred. The banks raise them for various reasons and often do not notify the cardholder. We have had them before and more often than not this is the case. In one case we had the buyer was so apologetic and transferred the money back to our bank account.

If you work calmly with your buyer they may well pay you back thru bank deposit.

Also when you have no tracking you cannot contest it these as you WILL lose and automatically have the $15 fee applied as you have seen. The fee is appied if/when you lose but not when you win.

If your account has a very good track record I think it's best to contact PayPal by phone and sometimes they will close the case "no fault". This means the buyer gets their money back but it does not come out of your funds. This could happen when the item is low value as yours is.

These chargebacks are a fact of life in ecommerce (and B&M stores) these days when a buyer backs their purchase with a credit card.

[kopenhagen5]

Really ? The bank will begin a chargeback without cardholders consent nor notification ?

I believe you but the first I have heard of it.

What is their justification ?

If I was a buyer and it happened I would be putting my bank in the norti corner.

And writing to the FOS.

[davewil1964]

---

@kopenhagen5 wrote:

Really ? The bank will begin a chargeback without cardholders consent nor notification ?

I believe you but the first I have heard of it.

What is their justification ?

If I was a buyer and it happened I would be putting my bank in the norti corner.

And writing to the FOS.

---

Over their limit comes to mind

[rapadaan]

It happen to me too , turned out the customer had no ideal the bank had reversed the purchase , on further enquires with the said bank the thought it was a case of  the card be  skimmed .as the buyer had no pattern of purchases through pay pal Think it was a case of an over enthusiastic bank .Luckly i wasnt chage the $15

[kopenhagen5]

Over their limit comes to mind

Of course, like the old cheques bouncing and both accounts get a fee.

But that would be the only reason I imagine and probably the reason for those we are hearing about now.

[digital*ghost]

---

@clarry100 wrote:

Very often the buyer has no idea the chargeback has even occurred. The banks raise them for various reasons and often do not notify the cardholder.

---

I wonder, has anyone ever had a bank confirm that they practice this kind of thing? I've heard of buyer's claiming they didn't know before, but the one (and only) converstation with a rep for a bank that I am aware of, they said that they never initiate chargebacks when a buyer has gone over their limit. 

I know there was a recent glitch in some banking systems that resulted in some widespread chargebacks, but the rep basically said that 99% of the time, chargebacks are cardholder-initiated.

I'm not sure what to believe, banks don't exactly have reputations for absolute transparcency and honesty, but after some recent experiences, I suspect most of the times where the buyer is genuinely unaware of the chargeback, it's because they are not the cardholder.

I went a long time without any issues with cc chargebacks and the like (6 years of selling on eBay), but in the last few weeks I've had 4 raised (the first wasn't actually a CC chargeback, it was unauthorised use of a PP account - that was resolved in my favour, thankfully, but the rest remain unresolved). It's interesting to get the responses from buyers after you contact them about it - my account was hacked, it was a mistake, I didn't know... 

Then they promise that they'll get it all fixed up, advise the bank etc. But they don't. They just say whatever they think will pass off the responsibility and happliy go on their way stealing from people. (My fourth one was raised earlier tonight - got the notification for it while I was replying to a different "buyer" who was trying to claim the order they received weeks ago was short, and still had another INR claim to respond to, so my bias is showing, I'm sure)

This message was brought to you by the letters P'ed and O. And by the number of jerks who pull this carp

 

[pancaket52]

Happened to me too - in my case the buyer had just got married, changed her name on her Credit Cards and Bank Accounts but forgot to change it on the one she used for ebay.

The Bank reversed the payment - she was horrified when I contacted her and rang the Bank immediately - the Bank dropped the case with Paypal and all ended well .

[ozstockman]

---

@clarry100 wrote:

Also when you have no tracking you cannot contest it these as you WILL lose and automatically have the $15 fee applied as you have seen. The fee is applied if/when you lose but not when you win.

---

Tracking won't save you from chargeback because Paypal will only pretend they are fighting for you and the bank that has made this chargeback to Paypal won't communicate with you and probably with Paypal too. 

That is not just a Paypal problem, that the whole financial industry problem. It may be came from days when merchandisers manually processed credit card payments and I could understand why they were charged with chargeback fees. They could at least verify that a customer who was going to pay is a card holder and if they did not do it they had to pay that fee.

Now if we go back to our days and online payments the whole chargeback fee is ridiculous & should not be charged at all. We sellers do not have any chance to verify a customer, they are paying through gateways like Paypal, eWay and bank gateways providing all payment details to them only. So it must be made a gateway responsibility to verify a customer not a merchandiser who does not have access and ability to do it. Most of the time we cannot even see credit card details and we cannot check them. And yet all these banks and Paypal will charge a merchandiser with a chargeback fee  if some payment is screwed up. They cannot call it  a secure payment if later they can tell you to pay for unauthorised payment made through their gateway. It is just nonsense considering they charge 1-3% from each transaction.

I have told it to Paypal  everytime they are trying to pull a chargeback fee on me and I once called their supervisor who agreed to refund both a buyer payment and the chargeback fee back to my Paypal account. But there is no doubt they will keep doing it with charging sellers with the chargeback fee simply because they are allowed to do it.

As for the tracking, the last time I had a tracking # I had all customer emails confirming her order, And I had her signature provided by AusPost  that she received it and yet Paypal was going to charge me with the fee  and refund the buyer her payment in full. They were asking to provide a receipt  for eParcel that shows thebuyer address but eParcel does not provide such a receipts and all other confirmations from AusPost did not work for Paypal so I had to call their supervisor.

It is possible the buyer could not be aware of this chargeback and her bank claiming it was not authorized. However she was not answering my emails where I tried to figure out was wrong so I can guess she was involved in it

And Paypal refused to give the bank details so it was looking like a robbery and there was nobody who you could provide proof that there must be some mistake or the bank customer is simply stealing involving her bank in it.