PayPal Chargeback - WESTPAC thieves

[justkidzbiz]

I had my first Chargeback a couple of months ago. After contacting the buyer asking "why" claims had no idea, didn't open the Chargeback. (BS, Westpac confirmed they don't just open Chargebacks for "every" purchase in date range, when CC is "stolen".

My thoughts on this was, as tracking no longer shows after xx days, buyer thinks they can pull a shifty.  Anyway, I got written confirmation from AP advising time, date and address of delivery. Buyer confirms receipt of item and happy with purchase. I sent all this info including buyer's confirmation of receiving item, plus photos showing tracking. 

Asked buyer to cancel the chargeback. Claims bank said they can't stop the Chargeback "as it's already been opened" (more BS).

Anyway, Paypal Protection covered me as I provided all the relevant info.  The case was under investigation by the bank for 2 months.

Today I get this from PayPal.....

We've been notified by your buyer's card provider that Case PP-D- xxxxxxxx has been decided in the buyer's favour. As a token of gratitude for valued customers like you, we won't debit your PayPal account for the disputed amount.

Now, given tracking proves delivery and confirmed by AP with date, time address and the buyer's confirmation of receipt of the item, all of which PayPal sent to Westpac......how on earth can the bank find in favour of the buyer??? Bloody thieves!!

[countessalmirena]

justkidsbiz,

I don't think you can blame Westpac. Since you were not the direct merchant (that is, you didn't process the customer's card directly, because it went through PayPal), what do you realistically think the chances are that PayPal actually fought the chargeback claim?

If your answer is "ZERO", you win the prize. (Unfortunately, the prize has been stolen by a small garden gnome who speaks only Old Church Slavonic; will you settle for a heartfelt shake of the hand?)

It's not that PayPal can't fight chargebacks; they can. Providing the information that you mention in your post should do perfectly well. But did you use a postage method that shows all of the following?

1. Delivery date, and
2. The buyer's address, and
3. Delivery status showing that the item was delivered.

If the tracking method didn't show the full address, for instance, PayPal may have a process in place whereby they do not bother responding to the card issuer's request for documentation. They could provide the alternative evidence that you provided to PayPal, but large companies often have a simplified streamed process in which as much as possible is done along automatic lines. Anything that falls outside those automatic lines may be allowed to fall by the wayside, as the cost of human employees handling the issue of chargebacks manually might be more than "eating" the occasional loss - for instance, when a) the seller didn't send by a fully tracked method that includes buyer's address, and b) the seller has provided evidence to PayPal that would certainly be sufficient to show delivery if the seller were not protected and took matters up with the FOS afterwards.

I consider that it is entirely possible that PayPal simply provide the link showing proof of delivery when that proof includes the buyer's address, when a chargeback is initiated. That would result almost certainly in the chargeback request being declined by the card issuer/bank. This would be amazingly easy to set up as with a simple script, and negate any human involvement in an entirely automated process.

From Westpac:

What is the process for a chargeback?

1. Cardholder raises problem with their financial institution (known as the Issuer) or the Issuer discovers a breach of the card scheme rules
2. Issuer raises a Chargeback via scheme
3. Westpac Chargeback team receives the Chargeback and may request documentation from the merchant to verify the transaction. The merchant is required to respond to these requests, by the timeframe specified in the Chargeback letter
4. If the chargeback is determined to be invalid, Westpac Chargeback team will decline the chargeback and return it to the Issuer
5. If the chargeback is determined to be valid, the chargeback amount is debited from the merchant’s account and notification is provided to the merchant. A chargeback fee may also be charged to the merchant’s account.

[digital*ghost]

You can blame current legislation for this issue - though the banks certainly gain more than they lose from the laws surrounding chargebacks, so won't be in a hurry to do anything to change it. That change, if it ever comes, will need to come from pushback from the retail sector.

They can't deny a customer's claim unless it is undeniably clear the customer knowingly authorised the charge - as you can imagine, that's actually quite difficult to prove, even if all the details on the order match the cardholder's (and we as sellers will never know if they do, because we're not given any of the card details at all). 

[thendreamer]

It's impossible to prove, I had one awhile ago over $800. Buyer picked up item then lodged chargeback. I provided tracking and still lost. 

Out product and money. 

[davewil1964]

---

@thendreamer wrote:

It's impossible to prove, I had one awhile ago over $800. Buyer picked up item then lodged chargeback. I provided tracking and still lost. 

Out product and money. 

---

That's a good trick.

How did you provide tracking for something that wasn't posted?

[ramadsebas]

pick up. v.
1. collect something that has been left elsewhere. e.g. "Wanda came over to pick up her things"
2. obtain, acquire, or learn something, especially in an informal way. e.g. "he had picked up a little Russian from his father"
3. detect or receive a signal or sound, especially by means of electronic apparatus. e.g. "we've picked up a distress signal"
4. resume something. e.g. "they picked up their friendship without the slightest difficulty"
5. INFORMAL pay the bill for something. e.g. "he never allowed her to pick up the cheque"
6. find and take a particular road or route. e.g. "they veered left and picked up the road which ran alongside the river"
7. NORTH AMERICAN tidy a room or building.

Here I was thinking my posties were being lude North Americans telling me to clean my genitals with these cards which say "A reminder to pick up your parcel...".

[countessalmirena]

Fortunately for the avoidance of any such confusion concerning private parts, eBay have a specific meaning for "pickup".

[iscottpcparts]

Hi mate, well how's this for a doozy!

I purchased 2 products 2 weeks ago from ebay and the bank sebt the entire amount AGAIN in a single bank code transfer without my knowledge. To then have me contact eBay get BS'd by Westpac to the hilt to then get an email from ebay saying that they had never requested any money and they don't even do transactions as a company they only manage accounts! 

I went back to Westpac and cracked the whip, denied the BS's and got assertive. Long story got my money back after I schooled them on financial, larceny and fraud laws to have them in turn accept fault and culpability to then return my funds and the over $80 in over drawn fees the next day. To then have them send the money back to eBay 5 mins after it hitting my account AGAIN!?

That's when I called up and got serious and mentioned solicitors and ombudsman and federal court. Let's just say they bent over and refunded my by the next morning. 

Now you'd think that's the end of the story by any means. After multiple assurances that this would NEVER happen again from Westpac, 2 weeks later I made 2 more purchase from ebay again and guess what!

They are leaning back on a policy over larceny & fraud laws!!! WTH!???

It's Australia day 2022 tomorrow so I'll be going to see a solicitor the day after to get the ombudsman, ICAC and the ACCC involved with empirical evidence that I've already got as my ammunition. Once their investigations are done and my solicitor confirms I'm not the only victim of this by Westpac then it becomes not just a larceny and fraud case but racketeering being committed by Westpac with hundreds and thousands of victims potentially who haven't gone to the extent I have to uncover the truth. 

At this stage it's at the very least habitual criminal negligence leading to wilful acts of larceny and fraud.  With the additional investigations hopefully racketeering and serious federal crimes being uncovered by one of the big 4. 

I'll post updates or you will see it on the news. Westpac certainly I

Isn't a stranger to highly illegal behavior so this probably won't come as a surprise to anyone moving forward.

Thought with the potential for hundreds and thousands of customers being effected the numbers may skyrocket in compensation payouts and fines against the bank in time to come. 

I'm now 43 years of age and after the way the corporate psychopath I just spoke to above the complaints handling manager (his boss) I now have a very good reason to take these actions. 

By the way this is all over (this time) $154.90!!!!! Insanity right!?

Updates coming soon or on the news, which ever you see first 😂.

[iscottpcparts]

P.s it's NOT eBay at fault it IS Westpac!! 

Here:

Hello Scott,

This email is in regard to your recent contact with us for being double charged for an order that you purchased from eBay Australia. I can confirm that you have faced a scenario where the amount for your order has already been deducted individually first from your payment source and then a sum of total of all the items would have been deducted again and it will be on hold/pending.

I am writing this email to you on behalf of eBay, and I would request you to share this email with the bank so that the duplicate amount which was deducted the second time can be released by your bank. I am sharing below the details of the order for which the amount would have been deducted twice.

Order number: 10-08084-40945 and 10-08084-40944

Total : $305.71

Above are the details of the order for which there would have been a duplicate charge on your payment instrument which will be on hold/Pending .Please be assured you can share this email with the bank and request them to reverse the pending payment of $ 305.71 for you. I apologize for the inconvenience that you had to face. Hope this helps you.

Kind regards,

Abhirup B

eBay Customer Service

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[iscottpcparts]

Sorry but I've proven your post very wrong below with an email from Ebay supporting the facts of the original poster. 

Kind regards,

IScottPCParts