RETURN POLICY---whats the go with this

[2611geoff]

Hi All , i currently have a case INAD and paypal say item may be returned and i should make a full refund.

The item was sold with no return box ticked.

I have no desire to recieve an item back ,  that is not in the condition that is was in ,  when sent , let alone make a full refund.

Any ideas

Thanks in advance

[the_hawk*]

I have read so many threads recently where people have been slamming on ebay and paypal about how they do not operate under the correct consumer laws of Australia.

whether they do or they dont, is pointless in atleast 90% of ebay transactions.

even if you buy a brand new product from a licenced business, you are still behind the 8 ball , if you need to hire a lawyer to fight a case and claim compensation for you, you have already lost.

how many of the transactions on ebay would cost more than the hiring of a lawyer, i am sure there are still a lot of transactions where there are large amounts of money involved but they would be in the minority

for arguments sake, if i brought a $1000 laptop under the above circumstance, i still wouldnt go and see a lawyer, firstly, because around here the average lawyer costs $400 an hour, and then any work they do for you costs you more, writing letters, photo copying, phone calls etc etc .

so unless there was a 100% assurance that not only will you win the case, but you will also be able to recover your money in full, i see going down the path of a lawyer as throwing good money after bad.

there have been many cases where people have hired a lawyer to represent them in real life / non ebay ,. transactions where it has gone wrong, and the claimant has won their case before a court, but still have not been able to recover the monies owed

In a situation like that you dont need a lawyer, you need to know you are right under the relevant laws of the states involved and then use the small claims court where there are no lawyers, just the parties involved argueing why they are right under the law and a judge makes a decision based on law. 

Can still be costly if you lose.

I would never buy expensive items like laptops on ebay because of the warranty issues.

[purple.cow]

One thing moorna did say that is relevant is the bit about having a test certificate. Which I'll lay a dollar to a doughnut isn't the case here.

It took me a few minutes to reply to this because I fell off my chair in surpirse lol.

We actually agree on something lol.

On that note I'll leave these boards for the time being as I have to head off out.

[peternt2001]

In a situation like that you dont need a lawyer, you need to know you are right under the relevant laws of the states involved and then use the small claims court where there are no lawyers, just the parties involved argueing why they are right under the law and a judge makes a decision based on law. 

Can still be costly if you lose.

I would never buy expensive items like laptops on ebay because of the warranty issues.

The laptop was just an example.

And yes you can go through the different states small claims courts to avoid lawyers. However it does make it a little more difficult when the parties are in different states.

But even going through small claims courts isnt 100% , my boss took a refrigeration supply company to small claims court, the other party didnt bother to show, and my boss was awarded $5,000 . However when the deadline to pay came and went and there was no payment from the other party, he went back to small claims court and was again awarded the $5000 and given another deadline for the payment to be made by.

The other party actually came up with a payment plan, made one payment and didnt make anymore. Again back to the small claims court, and again he was given another deadline for the payment. Same thing no payment, but my boss being a businessman , actually mixed up the next small claims appointment and arrived 2 hours late.

So basically at the end of the day, because of all the difficulty in making the person pay, even with judgement on his behalf . He ended up forgetting about it,because it was now taking up too much of his time and effort to recover the money.

Winning a judgement and getting the money in some cases can be 2 different things. And this was involving 2 parties in the same city, so imagine the nightmare of using small claims court for parties in different cities in different states.

I was just trying to point out that the people on here who continually tell people ebay and paypal are operating outside of australian consumer law, may be right in some cases. But as soon as you try and recover money and goods using outside methods, lawyers and small claims courts it starts to be unrealistic for the majority of the purchases on ebay. So saying get a lawyer and everyone will buckle under your legal might, isnt an answer unless you are wealthy with money to throw away, and bored s*itless with nothing better to do with your time 

[purple.cow]

The laptop was just an example.

And yes you can go through the different states small claims courts to avoid lawyers. However it does make it a little more difficult when the parties are in different states.

But even going through small claims courts isnt 100% , my boss took a refrigeration supply company to small claims court, the other party didnt bother to show, and my boss was awarded $5,000 . However when the deadline to pay came and went and there was no payment from the other party, he went back to small claims court and was again awarded the $5000 and given another deadline for the payment to be made by.

The other party actually came up with a payment plan, made one payment and didnt make anymore. Again back to the small claims court, and again he was given another deadline for the payment. Same thing no payment, but my boss being a businessman , actually mixed up the next small claims appointment and arrived 2 hours late.

So basically at the end of the day, because of all the difficulty in making the person pay, even with judgement on his behalf . He ended up forgetting about it,because it was now taking up too much of his time and effort to recover the money.

Winning a judgement and getting the money in some cases can be 2 different things. And this was involving 2 parties in the same city, so imagine the nightmare of using small claims court for parties in different cities in different states.

I was just trying to point out that the people on here who continually tell people ebay and paypal are operating outside of australian consumer law, may be right in some cases. But as soon as you try and recover money and goods using outside methods, lawyers and small claims courts it starts to be unrealistic for the majority of the purchases on ebay. So saying get a lawyer and everyone will buckle under your legal might, isnt an answer unless you are wealthy with money to throw away, and bored s*itless with nothing better to do with your time 

I fully understand and concur with your statements as I went down the same road more than once to recover debts during my business life, with similar results in some cases.

The trouble with the legal system I found was that while it may well be right and set rulings in my favour, it's a totally different story when you try to put those rulings into practise.

At the end of the day I was often forced into accepting that the only thing I gained by taking legal action was that the other party ended up with a 'Bad debt' blackmark against their name.

However, that can be seen as a good result in its own right sometimes because it will ensure their credit reference level is screwed totally in the long term so they will find it extremely hard to raise capital or get other creditors to accept them in the future as those blackmarks show up for the rest of your life, even though a bankrupcy is only suppose to last a given number of years.

I found that notion very satisfying indeed lol.

OK, I still lost my money in my pocket you may think, but that's not quite the case when it comes tax returns time of the year, because then I get to write that loss off against payable income tax for that year for my business, so the only real loser in the end is Australia as a whole due to the country having less tax revenue dollars to spend on all the things the population wants, education, hospital care, law enforcement etc, etc.

[the_hawk*]

peternt there is an old saying you cant get blood out of a stone winning a judgement against someone who has nothing isn't a win.

and regardles of it being small claims, district,  magistrates, or  federal court or if lawyers are involved or not suing someone who has nothing is still going to get you nothing. I take it your Boss never checked if the guy had any asset's first.

I would never buy a high value item on ebay and expect a real warranty, the only protection you have is the paypal 45 days and if the seller is dodgy even that will be hard to win.

so the best you can do is paypal paid by a credit card that provides extended warranty on all purchases.

or simply buy over the counter where you can go and pound on it    

[purple.cow]

I just remembered that there is one other alternative open to you if you want to regain at least part of the adjudged debt, and that's when to SELL that debt and judgement to a debt collection company.

Yeah, they really do BUY bad debt lol.

They give you a percentage of that debt amount up front, then they go after the debtor to recover the full amount, PLUS added fees.

They're the boys you don't want turning up at your door lol.

I took that course of action a couple of times back in the days when money was tight for my business because it gave me that bit of extra instant cashflow at the time, and perhaps saved me from hitting the wall and going under.

Most of the cases I won but never recovered the money from I was very satisfied just to know I'd managed to curtail their lives in some form for the future.

Nasty maybe, but revenge sure can be sweet at times lol.