Selling, the laws, liability and responsibility

joshawe_7
Community Member

Hi everyone

 

I recently (we’ll still am) having an issue with a buyer who I believe is abusing the “money back guarantee” that eBay offer. In an effort to clarify where I stand legally I’ve been looking through the eBay user terms and conditions and the Australian legislation. This has given me a couple of questions that I would appreciate others input on, as I may have missed something or miss understood something.   Below are the relevant points of info related to my question. (Some I’ve paraphrased” 

 

1) In section 7 of the eBay user agreement, trading on eBay and limitation of liability.  It is made very clear that any contract of sale is between the seller and the buyer and that eBay take no responsibility legally or otherwise. 

2) In the same section it is make expressly clear that as a user it is your responsibility no eBay’s to ensure that you are adhering to any relevant laws and as a user it is your responsibility not eBay’s to enforce your legal rights and obligations under those laws. 

3) In section 10 of the eBay user agreement, returns and eBay money back guarantee. It states that a seller can accept or decline a return unless the return meets the requirements of the eBay money back guarantee. 

4) I am not trading as a business on eBay so any sale I make is considered a private sale under Australian law. 

5) Under Australian law consumer guarantees do not apply to private sales. (Other than clear title etc) 

 

6) When considering what rules or laws apply to any given situation the laws as stated in the relevant governing legislation take president and trump any rules, such as those in a user agreement that contradict these laws. 

So this is my question.

 

Given that in Australia a private sale between two individuals does not come with any legal guarantee and that according to eBay’s user agreement any contract of sale is  legally binding contract between the seller and the buyer alone. How exactly is the eBay money back guarantee fit into this legally? For a user to agree to offer  a guaranteed return on a private sale contradicts what applies to a private sale in accordance to the Competitions and Consumer Act 2010. I would also like to understand how a user is expected to enforce their legally protected rights as a consumer when it would seem that the eBay user agreement is in place to diminish and seemingly waiver some of those rights. 

I have stated that I do not accept returns. The item in question was delivered to the buyer on the 18/7. On the 25/7 the buyer wants to return the item claiming the return under the eBay money back guarantee. Which offers me no option to decline. Two days after the auction ended the buyer disclosed that they currently did not have the funds available to pay for the item and expected me to wait until he had the funds available. I was not willing to do so and reminded him he is required to make the payment within four days of the completion of the auction. If payment was not make I would be cancelling the sale in accordance the relevant eBay rules. The buyer informed me he had borrowed the money and had paid for the items, which was the case and the item was sent.

 

 

The item In question is a very rare hand plane only manufactured between 1909 and 1943 so it’s somewhere between 113 to 79 years old. It is well documented that these particular planes have a weakness in how the frog is attached to the body and it is estimated that approximately 30% of all these planes have been damaged due to this inherent weakness.  The plane I sold had been repaired as it had suffered damage to to the same weakness. The repair did not effect the planes usability. There was also a crack in the lever cap of the plane. The crack in the lever cap is clearly visible in the listing photos, the repair is not due to its position. My description of the plane was simply “in great condition with original japanning” as even considering the repair it was perfectly usable and due to its rarity “great condition” i do not believe to be inaccurate.  It is also completely subjective as to what one would consider “great condition”  prior to the sale of my plane the last plane of this type sold on eBay for around $1700 AUD there is currently one for sale with a starting price of around $2000 AUD. Mine sold for $1250 and whilst iI was happy with this amount I believe that all things considered the price paid is under market value for the item. 

The buyer is claiming, after a week or receiving the item that it does not match my description of being in “great condition” and has requested I refund $500 or give a full refund on the return of the item. I am of the firm belief that the buyer has simply decided they cannot afford the item as this was apparent from the start. I have said to the buyer I am more than happy to replace the lever cap but I will not be accepting a return. Although it appears that is exactly what eBay are trying to force me into doing. 

I would argue that as the user agreement contradicts Australian consumer laws by forcing a seller to guarantee the buyers money back, where no such legal guarantee exists. The eBay money back guarantee is in breach of Australian consumer law, and as eBay state as a user it is my responsibility to enforce my legal rights any agreement to section 10 of the eBay user guide cannot and should not be allowed to be enforceable. 

I welcome any input, thoughts and constructive criticism on this matter. 

Message 1 of 46
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Selling, the laws, liability and responsibility

New message first is the logical way to read, so you could be right. Us logical people get messages in a different order.

 

Define most. You and stawks do not necessarily count as a majority.

Message 31 of 46
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Selling, the laws, liability and responsibility

I also, have it set at 'newest to oldest'

Message 32 of 46
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Selling, the laws, liability and responsibility

3-2

 

I'm not sure where wwos lands.

Message 33 of 46
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Selling, the laws, liability and responsibility

"Newest to Oldest" - I never thought of doing it any other way.

 

When I said "most", I didn't actually count the number of members, but read several posts with the order the same as I saw, and only one member (repentatleisure) with a different order, so used the word "most" (even though from a small group).

Message 34 of 46
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Selling, the laws, liability and responsibility

LOL - logical.

 

Newest to oldest = the last post is first - at the top.

 

Message 1 of 34.

 

Screenshot_20230730-080250_Chrome.jpg

Message 35 of 46
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Selling, the laws, liability and responsibility


@domino-710 wrote:

LOL - logical.

 

Newest to oldest = the last post is first - at the top.

 

Message 1 of 34.

 

Screenshot_20230730-080250_Chrome.jpg


 

Oops - I meant "oldest to newest", not fully awake - too many late nights watching the swimming!

Message 36 of 46
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Selling, the laws, liability and responsibility


@wide-world-of-stamps wrote:

Mine is showing the same as most posters.

 

However, if I change the sort order from "oldest to newest" to "by topics", the order is the same as repentatleisure.

 

So, none of us are going mad (or no more than usual 😄 ), the posts just show up in a different order depending on the option chosen.


 

My computer is the exception, I suspect. It is set at oldest to newest for the simple reason I like things in that order, it seems a  logical way to read the posts.

And that would be okay if it actually did it that way (or any other ordered way).

I will show you a screenshot of what I actually get. What I am trying to show is the date/time of various posts & what page they pop up on, if that helps.

 

 


@wide-world-of-stamps wrote:

Mine is showing the same as most posters.

 

However, if I change the sort order from "oldest to newest" to "by topics", the order is the same as repentatleisure.

 

So, none of us are going mad (or no more than usual 😄 ), the posts just show up in a different order depending on the option chosen.

Screenshot 2023-07-30 083520.png

 

 

 


Screenshot 2023-07-30 083719 next page.png

Message 37 of 46
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Selling, the laws, liability and responsibility

I do oldest to newest, 50 posts per page.

 

When a topic has new posts it takes me to the first of the new posts.

 

Anyone who does it the other way is yllis, tsuj yllis.

Message 38 of 46
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Selling, the laws, liability and responsibility

I also do the default of oldest to newest. That means, the oldest message at the top of the screen is message 1. This message when I post it should be message 39 (unless someone posts a reply before I submit this one). I also have 50 posts per page.

 

Like you, when a topic has new posts, it takes me to the first unread message when I click on it.

Message 39 of 46
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Selling, the laws, liability and responsibility

Ditto for me - in all respects

Message 40 of 46
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