Warning Be very careful when selling on EBAY.

[rubyrose1111]

I recently sold an item on EBAY for $585 to a buyer in MEXICO. I posted the item with Australia Post tracking and insurance for $300. As soon as the ebay estimated time of delivery elapsed about 10 days letter the buyer put in a claim for item not recieved - shortly after that he recieved a refund from Ebay for the full amount.

This was even though the item was still being tracked on the Australian post and then the Mexican post web-sites. I contacted Australia Post who could not believe that the buyer had been refunded considering it was still in transit. I obtained a reference number from Australia post who told me to be patient as Mexico post was known to be very slow. I informed ebay of what was going on and received a very poor repsonse. They keep saying that this is their policy - items must be delivered within the time frame estimated. What more could be done the item was tracked and stuck in Mexico customs etc. (Unbelievable). In the meantime Ebay have billed me for the $585 ???

As things went on (YES) the item was delivered to the buyer and tracked as so. I again get in touch with ebay and I am told via messages that the item was considered 'lost in transit'????. How can this be so as I have proof from Australia Post that they and Mexico Post never considered the item as 'lost'. Both postal websites never stated that the item was lost. The other reason given that ebay had made a prior decison in the buyers favour that now cannot be overturned. Are you kidding. So the buyer gets the item and the refund?? 

We all live in Australia and have a basic understanding of both Civil and Criminal law. Civilly, how can I be held liable and penalised $585 dollars when I have fullfiled my contract obligations: ie: posted the goods with tracking and buyer recieves the goods ( it is a no-brainer). Ebay refunded the buyer not me under thier policy. The fact that the item was late in delivery was out of my control. Any Court would see in my favour.

My question is why do Ebay act in this manner???. They must know that as a minimum it is unethical and not legally sound and possibly assisting fraudulant behaviour. So it is thier POLICY but we have laws in this country on how people should trade and act in the business world. 

Just one other thing. Ebay suggested that I message the buyer and persue hime for the money. Yer right!!!

Totally astounded !!

[sydney-diecast-kingdom]

Unfortunately this happens a fair bit. It's the reason I don't sell outside of Australia. No exceptions. 

[kopenhagen5]

Keep in mind eBay is an automated system run by members on a trust basis.

You don't buy or sell from eBay, it is purely transactions between 2 parties not affiliated with ebay like advertising in a newspaper.

The difference is eBay offers some assistance if things go pear shaped but don't guarantee a result.

In this instance I would have not accepted the purchase from Mexico. It screams of a con.

eBay is still a good platform to use, however one needs to learn the ropes to stay out of trouble.

Do as bof suggests. You are eligible for seller protection form PayPal.

PayPal are usually good but sometimes you need to keep on their back for them to examine the details properly.

[clarry100]

Yes... I would do as has been suggested and get in touch with the FOS in the first instance.

Even tho as PayPal says ebay have made the refund decision they (PayPal) have still been complicit in actually performing the refund when they are aware of the facts of the case.

If this fails to work you could try lodging a formal complaint with the ACCC against ebay. The FOS won't work against them as they are not the financial institution, PayPal are.

Keep ebay informed of the case report reference numbers as you move forward.  You might find once they are aware of the path your are taking that they suddenly have a change of heart.

Be persistent, don't give up on it.

[pacotrading]

Hi,

years ago when we did post internationaly, we sent a item to Mexico, took weeks to get there, then from point of orgin to delivery address in Mexico around another 2 weeks, and we **bleep** about Oz Post, that had to be the worlds slowest delivery i had ever witnessed, now with Ebays new policies we would have been crucified for that one.

[rubyrose1111]

Thanks for reply.

I have a bit of legal background. I am sure that I am not the only one that has been in this position and I will persue this no doubt. This scenario has so many potential legal breaches by ebay and probably paypal it is not funny. 

I have fulfilled my contract obligation to the buyer. He bought item, I posted it, he gets it ( the time frame does not matter as this is out of my control - postal delays ae normal and can be expected). Matter over. The fact that ebay steps in and decides to refund the buyer is thier decison under thier policy. You cannot have a situation were the buyer gets the goods and is then refunded and the seller is penalised the refund amount. 

[rubyrose1111]

Many thanks.

Yes - less likely to occur in AUSTRALIA. Mostly because the buyers from countries with a renown slow postal service are aware. They will buy an item like in my case that is quite expensive armed with knowledge that most likely the estimated postal time frame will not be meet. Put in a claim for item not recieved via ebay and duly refunded. ( Even though item is still being tracked. They get the item plus the refund. Ebay say that they have checks that will identify buyers of this type. Rubbish. The buyer just gets another email address and user name and does it again. A buyer does not need to produce or forward his/her bank details on record to start a buyers account. 

cheers

[rubyrose1111]

Hi - best reply so far.

Yes - they EBAY trade in Australia and would have an ACN number for trading purposes. So they would be required to trade under the relevant corporations and business legislation within Australia. Trouble is in my opinion they do not appear to be adhering to it. It is a no brainer that under Australian law that a company trading as an auction site could in fact penalise a seller who in fact can prove delivery of an item and then back the the buyer who in this case has the item and the money. Ebay responses to this ( and I have them in writing) is that I need to contact the buyer and ask him to pay for the item again. Get real! 

Just be careful trading with them. I will never sell on there again regardless of the outcome. The other silly thing is that they have chraged me the 585 dollars on my invoice. If I did not pay this amount then they would probably suspend my account. They must know that we live in AUSTRALIA and we have fair laws and the amount "owed" by myself could never really be persued because i did not legally incur the debt.

cheers

[springyzone]

It's disgusting you can't get a sensible reply from the ebay reps.

It's not rocket science, they could look at the tracking, see the proof it has been delivered and refund you your money.

Logical.

Keep persisting, don't give up. Make sure you ring.

I would not sell expensive things to overseas countries. In fact, I am not sure I would use ebay to sell expensive things at all-I read of too many people being ripped off, one way or another.

[rubyrose1111]

Thank you. 

Point taken but ebay is much more than that. It is a very large business that trades in AUSTRALIA and we are theircustomers. It is not like a newspaper sale at all. They deduct and take fees and are at law an "Auction House". So you sell something to someone via an newspaper ad or similar. The arrangement is simple verbal or maybe even a simpe written contract like an email exchange of personal details of Drivers Licence etc. It is a simple contract:

1. I agree to sell you something for an agreed price and the buyer agreed that I post item with tracking etc

2. Buyer pays agreed amount

3. Buyer gets the goods or NOT. If I have tracking proof that I posted the item then they can have no claim. They agreed to act this way. The fact that it gets lost or stolen in transit is out of my control. ( They may choose insurance then all is good).

4. If the buyer gets the goods and it is broken, not fit for purpose intended, not the correct item etc - they should legally be refunded. 

** How ever in my case I posted the item via ebay as agreed with tracking. It was held up by way of Customs etc. All the time being tracked by postal services and never considered lost. Buyer gets the item and still is refunded by Ebay. So Ebay are much much more than you may think they are directed and managing how refunds should apply ( as an agent on behalf of the seller ) without any real legal right to do so.

Also I insured my item. However I have no claim on Australia Post as item has been delivered. 

Just be careful 

many thanks

[rubyrose1111]

Great answer. 

Should be able to sell most things on ebay though. I will not sell anymore. But you are right risk is to high. Sell maybe bulk small items so you do not take a hit as ebay policy is aimed at sellers. This one is no brainer. No problem with pursuing. Thier customer service is Terrible. They want you to go away. I mean I can be very forceful but they are like robots. They know they have the have the market covered and have no real competion. Fees are to high for this type of drama. They must know what is going on surely...