eBay in breach of the Sale of Goods Act

[amax-1]

How is eBay getting away with extinguishing a seller's right of protection under the Sale of Goods Act with their Money Back Guarentee Policy?

I am embroiled in a dispute about an item I sold where the tracking didn't update to delivered and the buyer claimed not have received the item. Despite Australia Post claiming from result of investigation that the item was delivered with the scanning subject to an electronics error, eBay provided the buyer with a refund and debited my account to reimburse them?

Section 21 of eBay's User Agreement states "all aspects of the agreement are governed by NSW law" The NSW Sale of Goods Act in Section 35 states delivery to a carrier is deemed delivery to the buyer, that is there is no NSW law supporting the Money Back Guarantee Policy requiring proof of delivery to the buyer which is essentially USA consumer law not applicable in Australia.

Furthermore, PayPal mirrors the Sale of Goods Act where a seller providing proof of postage is protected from INR claims, so what's eBay up to making policy in contradiction to the laws Section 21 of their User Agreement states is governed by?  

[thecatspjs]

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@jensmanchester-australia wrote:

cats - I understand what you are saying about consumer rights but buyers also have rights so if they don't receive a parcel, or it is damaged then surely they are entitled to a replacement or refund.

As I said before - the legalities of all this is beyond me but if what ebay are doing is illegal then why aren't the goverment bodies stepping in.

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Yes through the carrier they are entitled to the relevant compensation - if they did not seek or pay for insurance, they are only entitled to the level of insurance provided by the carrier.

Sellers are not responsible for third party actions such as AP - for commonsense reasons of course.

If  a seller has sent a parcel that has not been appropriately packed, or without insurance when buyer paid for it, of course the seller is responsible in those situations.

[thecatspjs]

And of course ..... eBay offers a Money Back Guarantee so eBay should fund it, if the seller has met all their responsibilities under law.

No buyer should be out of pocket, AFAIK, eBay charges fees to fund its MBG folly.

Rather than encouraging responsible consumer behaviour, such as encouraging sellers to offer post insurance - rather than free post.

[breracing-1]

The SOGA is not quite that straightforward and clear as there is a second part to it where the buyer may decline to treat the delivery to the carrier as delivery to the buyer and they may hold the seller responsible. The legal technicalites are too complicated for me to understand but the ebay legal eagles probably understand it all

That can apply if the mode of transport is unauthorised from the buyer, so if the buyer requests Australia Post and the seller sends by Mick's Courier's and it isn't received, they could regard it as non delivery to the agreed carrier.

[comcol]

amax: I can tell you that ebay will automatically refund ALL monies under $1000 to  a buyer no matter what.

I have that in a recording I made of a phone call to them.

If buyers know this they can then proceeed to make false claimbacks on everything and get the items for free.

It has been done to me at least 3 times so far. They pocketed the items and money.

Dont bother complaing to Ebay. They do not care

You can try paypal as they may help.

Ebay are thieves. Plain and simple. They would lose in court if anyone took it. 

[clarry100]

Yes Jens,

This would be the case where a buyer requested a specific carrier and packaging and paid for it but then the seller did not honour that request. In such a case the seller would have breached their side of the contract. Different matter. The buyer would have every right to complain if it went pear shaped.

But in all our time of selling we have never had a buyer request a specific carrier, only express service sometimes. So we just use the default carrier (AP) as specified in our listings.

Under Australian Consumer Law when a buyer shops online then they take on the responsibility of the carrier service.

Ownership of the goods transfers to the buyer once the seller has lodged the article with a carrier and can prove that.

If an item is picked up by a buyer then ownership of the item transfers to the buyer the minute they take it into their hands.

The seller cannot be held responsible for what happens to it whilst they are in transit to their home. They are the carrier in this case.

The actions/outcomes as a result of carrier performance are the responsibility of the buyer as they then own the item.

The seller simply needs proof of lodgement to the address provided by the buyer.

If it goes pear shaped it is really up to the buyer to seek compensation from the carrier not from the seller.

Ebay have twisted this around to try to make the seller 100% liable, but they have no legal basis upon which to enforce this in Australia.

Ebay can give such a guarantee via the MBG but it has to be funded by them if the seller has done all the right things.

As a seller you may feel morally obligated to make sure your customer gets what they paid for but if you have satisfied all the requirements you have no legal obligation to do so. Ebay can take on that responsibility. That is their choice.

[collect247]

Ownership of the goods transfers to the buyer once the seller has lodged the article with a carrier and can prove that

You are totally wrong in saying that it is the buyers responsibility once the seller sends the item,the buyer has nothing to do with an item until it actually gets handed to them but before that it's the sellers and carriers responsibility,so if a buyer doesn't receive the item even if there is proof by the seller that they sent it,the buyer still has no responsibility for it period,and the buyer will 100% be refunded.

[thecatspjs]

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@collect247 wrote:

Ownership of the goods transfers to the buyer once the seller has lodged the article with a carrier and can prove that

You are totally wrong in saying that it is the buyers responsibility once the seller sends the item,the buyer has nothing to do with an item until it actually gets handed to them but before that it's the sellers and carriers responsibility,so if a buyer doesn't receive the item even if there is proof by the seller that they sent it,the buyer still has no responsibility for it period,and the buyer will 100% be refunded.

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No you are incorrect.

In Australia, our sales legislation pass ownership to the buyer when goods are lodged for carriage. 

A seller is also not responsible for damage a third party does, once goods have been handed to carrier. 

This does not mean a sellers responsibilities end at this point, they still must liase with carrier if anything goes wrong with the delivery and seek compensation on behalf of the buyer if necessary. But they no longer own these goods once sent, they are the buyers.

[collect247]

No you are incorrect as this has just happened to me,I sent an item with registered post and the buyer never recieved it and ebay has refunded the buyer as I couldn't give an answer as to what happened to the item because I don't know what happened so unless you have been in this situation then you don't know the answer do you?

[thecatspjs]

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@collect247 wrote:

No you are incorrect as this has just happened to me,I sent an item with registered post and the buyer never recieved it and ebay has refunded the buyer as I couldn't give an answer as to what happened to the item because I don't know what happened so unless you have been in this situation then you don't know the answer do you?

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If I accepted eBays rules, instead of my rights as a consumer and a business owner I wouldn't be looking after my interests.

Your buyer and yourself should not be out of pocket in anycase as you used Registered Post - did you request an AP investigation ? Have you sought and received up to $100 compensation this AP service provides ? 

[joethenuts]

hi amax   all of you are missing the point op paid for a parcel to be tracked , the tracking did not say it was delivered ,what did you expect ebay to do ,there is no proof of being delivered, simple as that , now APOST says there was a problem with the electronics ,was there , and if so its there fault .they have to be responsible if something breaks down . the buyer says they did not get it ,the tracking system broke down , who would win this case .amax you should be going after A POST ,there system stuffed up.and if APOST has proof of delivery ,well ask them to give you a copy so you can give to ebay ,very simple.

and the part about common law well thats another story that has more floors than a myer store. have a nice day