paypal seller protection warning for all sellers

[babyjane62]

I learnt something recently that I was not aware of so thought I would share it as it has cost me $110 which I really am not pleased about.  I sold an item early december, after payment by paypal I signed into the "View Order Details" section of ebay to get address, posted item thinking I had done everything right.  The seller opened a dispute with paypal 3 days after I posted item saying they had not received it yet, mind you, I am in country Victoria and they are in sydney, express post takes 2 days to get anywhere, I sent a copy of the postage receipt to buyer stating they should at least wait a week before disputing but still no reponse.  I replied in the paypal dispute section, the response was I should have sent item to the work address listed with paypal not the home address listed with ebay as the buyer often has parcels go missing from the home address, would have been nice to know this.  To cut this saga short, the dispute was escalated when the buyer didn't receive item (or so we were told), after talking to paypal, they agreed I did have proof of sending item but as it was to the ebay address and not the paypal address they had to find in favour of the buyer and reversed the payment back to the buyer!!!!  I ask, I have proven postage, they know it, the buyer admits that parcels go missing from home address, why are they still using it as ebay registered address, why did they not tell me to make sure item was sent to work, or better still, pay the extra $3 for registered post.  This has left a bad taste in my mouth, christmas day I received a notice from paypal to get my balance out of negative or I may hear from debt collectors, so my warning to you all, PLEASE SEND ITEMS TO PAYPAL REGISTERED ADDRESS NOT EBAY REGISTERED ADDRESS.  Why aren't we told this more often, the little paypal protection icons are everywhere, share the rules more openly please.  I hope this doesn't happen to anyone else because it was a very unpleasant experience after building up nearly 1200 positive feedback responses which went nowhere to help my case.  Sorry for the longwinded post but I am annoyed that I was punished when paypal said they could see I had posted the item, they could see it was the buyers home address, they couldn't prove the buyer was telling the truth, but I am sorry, we have to reverse the payment!!!  I must say in closing, the paypal operators were very easy to contact and talk to, although perhaps velvet sledgehammer is an appropriate term.  Happy New Year everyone and may your ebay experiences be better than this one.

[antiquegoldandjewels]

Antiquegoldandjewels, how is the buyer using paypal to their own advantage?

The buyer has their work address registered with paypal as the delivery address of choice because items go missing from their home address.  This is actually protecting the seller, but only if the seller uses the correct address.

The buyer is actually acting responsibly by using an address where they can be sure of getting their mail.

As for asking for Stat Decs and sending letters of demand....that is just asking for negative feedback because in effect you are calling the buyer a liar when it was the seller who did not send to the correct address.

The buyer has used Paypal to their advantage by not giving the seller the opportunity to locate the parcel prior to the opening of a dispute.

My message to babyjane was to get her to take the tact of a seller concerned for the loss of her parcel, which no doubt she is, and to get the buyer to assist with that. Any reasonable person would be happy to help a seller recoup their loss of some of it.

A Stat Dec is a requirement of Australia Post is such matters.

Yes, the seller made a mistake but my take is that the buyer is well aware of the process. If they are honest, I cannot see that there will be any issue.

[antiquegoldandjewels]

As for asking for Stat Decs and sending letters of demand....that is just asking for negative feedback because in effect you are calling the buyer a liar when it was the seller who did not send to the correct address.

Sorry to say, but I think the buyer almost certainly is a liar.

Reading OP's story, it has all the signs of a deliberate set up to cause the confusion, counting on the fact that thousands of sellers do not know yet that they have to post ONLY to PP addy.

As the OP said, buyer was so ill manered not to even make contact - just open a dispute virtually straight away.

OP, I would most definitelly question this buyer some more, would be asking for stat dec by all means, it doesn't hurt, as you have the tracking so someone must know what happened to your parcel!

And of course, if the PO does confirm it was delivered to the home address, ring PP and they'll reverse the payment.

Since there is tracking for the parcel sent by Express Post and it shows as delivered, this is very serious in the eyes of Australia Post and I would not hesitate to lodge an investigation.

Negative feedback can be removed depending upon different circumstances.

You're human and made a mistake but this does not give people the right to steal from you. 

[motherbear2003]

"As for asking for Stat Decs and sending letters of demand....that is just asking for negative feedback" - I have yet to receive negative feedback because I ask for a Stat Dec.  Whilst some think this is not good business practice, you'd be amazed at the large number of buyers who start off saying they haven't received their item, and at the mere mention of a Stat Dec are never heard from again.  If they do contact me again it's usually to say their item has turned up; the package mysteriously appears within 24 hours:|

[fixnwear]

I find it strange that anyone thinks the buyer is being dishonest, they wouldn't know that a seller would fail to realise they had changed the delivery address in checkout, not knowing to post to the Paypal address if you want Paypal seller protection is hardly the fault of the buyer.

Buyer would know and most likely received the parcel on the day 2 as it was posted Express - saw the chance to claim and did on the day 3.

There is also a chance that the buyer is totally innocent, never received anything (PO will confirm it one way or another), just  gulty of extreme rudeness! That was not the way to treat people, disregard the seller entirelly, only thought given to the seller was how to make a claim ASAP!

[forumfool]

...

forumfool - As a buyer I have 6 addresses listed with PP for various uses. As lyndal1838 notes, I shouldn't have to keep changing my address on Ebay to that of my brother, sister, mother, physical address of my post office (for those that won't post to a PO Box) etc!

I didn't ever suggest anyone do so, that would indeed be absurd!    I just stated that I usually used the ebay address as a reference - not from now on though!  If I wanted an item shipped to a different address I would change the address on Paypal (not on my ebay address) but I would probably also mention it in an email to the seller with payment, just confirming it to be clear.  

[fixnwear]

And linda, what's wrong with calling buyer a liar if it turns out that's what he/she is?

A spade is a spade is a spade no matter what one calls it.

And jusr reading the boards over a long time, I would have to conclude there are more buyers that lie than sellers.

They lie about non receipt, about  the condition of the item, lie in feebacks with monotonuos regularity, they keep getting away  (mostly) with all sorts of injustices.

People will lie their heads of in order to get their way, get the refunds (they do the same thing in normal stores) - in order to gain something, wahtever that may be.

As for negative f/back - are you advising people to overlook lies and cheating in order to not get a neg? Not to even try investigating further?

I'm only a buyer, but my opinion is if all sellers worried less about the negs and made it much harder for buyers to cheat as they do now, with greatest of ease  - question everything all the time, report to appropriate bodies if that is the situation.

As it stands now, most of the sellers in my experience can't give you a full refund fast enough (even when you don't ask for it), as soon as you get in touch with them about smallest of issues!

I do reassure them immediatelly I don't want refund, I am not going to leave red dot, but all the same, it's scary how  sellers react without question - and it's a sad thing too.

And it's not even in the name of great customer service - it's FEAR!

[davewil1964]

If the item, including postage, was $110, then it should have been sent registered with extra cover. If a BIN, that should have been the only postage option; if an auction and it realised more than the seller anticipated, the seller probably should have spent some of the windfall on adequate (for their protection) postage. To the correct address.

AFAIK express doesn't provide cover of more than the postage cost (for satchels anyway), so it is not a smart way to post. Especially to the wrong address. Although I believe it is only tracked to a delivery centre anyway.

[the_great_she_elephant]

And linda, what's wrong with calling buyer a liar if it turns out that's what he/she is?

Nothing - once the truth has been established - but equally there is nothing right about assuming a buyer is a liar simply because they say their parcel - unregistered and posted to an incorrect address - hasn't arrived.

[lyndal1838]

A Stat Dec is a requirement of Australia Post is such matters.

That is complete nonsense....Australia Post does not ask for a Stat Dec for a missing parcel, unless perhaps the buyer makes a habit of having parcels go missing and it would be AP who would deal with the buyer, not the seller.

[fixnwear]

That is complete nonsense....Australia Post does not ask for a Stat Dec for a missing parcel, unless perhaps the buyer makes a habit of having parcels go missing and it would be AP who would deal with the buyer, not the seller.

If I felt cheated it would make a perfect sense to me to ask for Stat dec - as I would think very carefully about signing a false declaration if someone asked me to supply it - no matter who eventually deals with me!

And great she elephant (loooove the name!),

if you read my post again you'll see that I did say buyer is most likely lying , but she may not be, at  best  just a very incosiderate and rude person. Either way, don't blame the seller for being mad at her and she ought to make every attempt to get to the bottom of this.