on 01-11-2013 12:54 PM
Have you ever bidded on an item and a member has bidded against you making the sale go up in price higher and higher... until you either stop bidding or you win the auction?
I have been wondering if Ebay purposely set up Phantom buyers to increase their profits in the buying and selling of auctions.
Think about it. A typical example is a member that bids against you, they win the auction but never pay up. Therefore say if it was a phantom buyer, Ebay then deducts the sales fee but keeps the success fee. Maybe a way to make more money from people?
This is my theory anyhow. I feel like this is something people should consider..
Also, funny how you can't view a bidders account and history but you can with the seller??? Seems a bit dodgey to me.
Thoughts?
on 01-11-2013 03:17 PM
@brooke.munro wrote:
Yes.
yes, you read everything?
great, then you know how the final value fees work!
OK, here's something I don't think is written in the rules, but it makes it easier for others to know to which comment you refer by quoting the post that you are answering.
(see how I have your post in my response?)
OK, to quote a post,
at the bottom of the post which you are referring to, there is a reply button, if you use the reply button on the exact post you are replying on, when you hit reply and the reply box comes up, there is a blue button up the top called "quote" press that, and the post will appear in your response, and then you can post underneath, and everyone knows which post your response relates to.
on 01-11-2013 03:20 PM
@crikey*mate wrote:
at the bottom of the post which you are referring to, there is a reply button, if you use the reply button on the exact post you are replying on, when you hit reply and the reply box comes up, there is a blue button up the top called "quote" press that, and the post will appear in your response, and then you can post underneath, and everyone knows which post your response relates to.
Haha thanks, I saw that before but thought that by clicking on the "quick reply" the messgae would only be sent to that particular person. I do realise this is easier to see which discussion is being held by whom though.
on 01-11-2013 03:25 PM
@brooke.munro wrote:
That's exactly it!! Thank you.
OK, I am following your reasoning, but think logically for a bit
lets say that a) there is software like that available (there probably is), eBay have to buy it and then get somebody to install and use it. or, like the Lithiu software, employ another whole independent company to operate it.
or b) they employ their own programmers
They have tech maintenance every friday evening, even if they managed to ensure silence from the programmers, the people from whom they bought the software etc, how could they ensure that during general maintenance that the tech teams didn't identify the software?
How would they ensire the secrecy when there are so many unknowns and so many people involved?
Would they really risk their global empire and current leading market place position by knowingly breaking the law?
on 01-11-2013 03:29 PM
@brooke.munro wrote:
@crikey*mate wrote:
at the bottom of the post which you are referring to, there is a reply button, if you use the reply button on the exact post you are replying on, when you hit reply and the reply box comes up, there is a blue button up the top called "quote" press that, and the post will appear in your response, and then you can post underneath, and everyone knows which post your response relates to.
Haha thanks, I saw that before but thought that by clicking on the "quick reply" the messgae would only be sent to that particular person. I do realise this is easier to see which discussion is being held by whom though.
LOL - I only learned about quick reply the other day (this software is quite new, we've only had Lithium for a few months) and I couldn't really see the point, I'll have to experiment more, I'm thinking it must load less features like the smileys (not a bad thing - gawd they're awful) and stuff up the top for people conscious of their downloads etc, but not too sure... took me ages to work out where the cursur in it was
*looks embarrassed*
on 01-11-2013 04:39 PM
@brooke.munro wrote:
Have you ever bidded on an item and a member has bidded against you making the sale go up in price higher and higher... until you either stop bidding or you win the auction?
Brooke, take a look at the bidding on item http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Enlarging-Timer-NOVEX-/251362419185 and let me know what you think of it. Looks suss I reckon! Before you do let me know, you need to click the 'spoiler' thingy below, but only do that AFTER you look at the bidding pattern for that item.
Now, to another part of your Opening Post . . . . .
@brooke.munro wrote:
I have been wondering if Ebay purposely set up Phantom buyers to increase their profits in the buying and selling of auctions.
Think about it. A typical example is a member that bids against you, they win the auction but never pay up. Therefore say if it was a phantom buyer, Ebay then deducts the sales fee but keeps the success fee. Maybe a way to make more money from people?
aside from the fact that sellers can get their Final Value Fees back for non-payers, for this to have any real effect on the profits of eBay it would have to happen on such a large scale that it would simply banish the idea to fantasyland!!!!! Seriously, how would eBay be able to keep their widespread fraudulent bidding a secret? All it would take is one disgruntled current or former employee to blow the whistle and that would be the end of eBay as we know it. The ramifications of participating in such deceptive, dishonest and illegal activity would be enough to ensure that 'eBay' would never countenance such an idea whether it be through individuals deliberately doing it manually or through some sort of computer program that they would utilise.
PURE FANTASY in my opinion, you should be writing books with such an active imagination! You'd be a surefire hit.
01-11-2013 04:40 PM - edited 01-11-2013 04:42 PM
Are there Phantom buyers on Ebay???
Noooooooo....
I once bid on an auction and took a look at the bidding history, where I discovered a member who had been on eBay less than 30 days (you can't see member IDs in bidding history, but you can see FB number and click on to see a few details about what that member has bid on in the last 30 days - newly registered members have an icon next to their ID which disappears after 30 days).
Anyway, the reason why I became interested in that member's bidding history was because they already had FB in the hundreds, which I thought a little strange. Turns out that they had bid on nearly 30,000 items since joining. I didn't actually look at the date of their first bid, but that would have been a full-time job even if they'd been a member for 29 days. They were bidding on cheap craft items from a few different sellers, however there are a lot of sellers in China with a dozen IDs & stores which represent (and ship for) one parent company, so at the time I did wonder if this person was employed to effecively set a reserve price as a lot of the sellers started their items at 1c free post.
Not employed by eBay, mind you, but the parent company of the sellers in question, so shill bidding essentially.
on 01-11-2013 05:24 PM
@k1ooo-slr-sales wrote:
@brooke.munro wrote:Have you ever bidded on an item and a member has bidded against you making the sale go up in price higher and higher... until you either stop bidding or you win the auction?Brooke, take a look at the bidding on item http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Enlarging-Timer-NOVEX-/251362419185 and let me know what you think of it. Looks suss I reckon! Before you do let me know, you need to click the 'spoiler' thingy below, but only do that AFTER you look at the bidding pattern for that item.
SpoilerWhen you look at the bidding you could easily think a "Phantom" bidder was involved, but that is simply not the case. I was the bidder that drove the price up (on my buying ID that has a feedback score of 357). I am a bidder who may nibble bid up to my maximum when it suits me, or I may just bid my maximum on my first bid. My maximum for that item was $29.99 and I stopped bidding once I reached my maximum. If the other bidders bid was $30 I still would not have bid any more as I would have had to have bid $31 to get the high bid . . . . . and this was above my maximum. To some, it may look like the bidding was rigged to drive the price up, but it wasn't.
Now, to another part of your Opening Post . . . . .
@brooke.munro wrote:
I have been wondering if Ebay purposely set up Phantom buyers to increase their profits in the buying and selling of auctions.
Think about it. A typical example is a member that bids against you, they win the auction but never pay up. Therefore say if it was a phantom buyer, Ebay then deducts the sales fee but keeps the success fee. Maybe a way to make more money from people?
aside from the fact that sellers can get their Final Value Fees back for non-payers, for this to have any real effect on the profits of eBay it would have to happen on such a large scale that it would simply banish the idea to fantasyland!!!!! Seriously, how would eBay be able to keep their widespread fraudulent bidding a secret? All it would take is one disgruntled current or former employee to blow the whistle and that would be the end of eBay as we know it. The ramifications of participating in such deceptive, dishonest and illegal activity would be enough to ensure that 'eBay' would never countenance such an idea whether it be through individuals deliberately doing it manually or through some sort of computer program that they would utilise.
PURE FANTASY in my opinion, you should be writing books with such an active imagination! You'd be a surefire hit.
Hahaha thank you, It was just a very light hearted thought, not like I'm seriously looking into this as something that could be proven. I cannot prove that it's not real but I can't prove that it is either so it's just an idea that I put out there, good to hear other people's opinion. As I was sharing mine 🙂
on 01-11-2013 06:06 PM
@digital*ghost wrote:Are there Phantom buyers on Ebay???
Noooooooo....
I once bid on an auction and took a look at the bidding history, where I discovered a member who had been on eBay less than 30 days (you can't see member IDs in bidding history, but you can see FB number and click on to see a few details about what that member has bid on in the last 30 days - newly registered members have an icon next to their ID which disappears after 30 days).
Anyway, the reason why I became interested in that member's bidding history was because they already had FB in the hundreds, which I thought a little strange. Turns out that they had bid on nearly 30,000 items since joining.
I didn't actually look at the date of their first bid, but that would have been a full-time job even if they'd been a member for 29 days. They were bidding on cheap craft items from a few different sellers, however there are a lot of sellers in China with a dozen IDs & stores which represent (and ship for) one parent company, so at the time I did wonder if this person was employed to effecively set a reserve price as a lot of the sellers started their items at 1c free post.
Not employed by eBay, mind you, but the parent company of the sellers in question, so shill bidding essentially.
At a guess I would say they are part of the infamous Chinese Jewelry sellers/scammers,(they do that all the time
and at last count there where over 150 of them "buying" and "selling" to each other and the occasional genuine
buyer),
Reporting them is pointless as one will be NARU'd and two more take their place,
on 01-11-2013 06:40 PM
@go-tazz wrote:At a guess I would say they are part of the infamous Chinese Jewelry sellers/scammers,(they do that all the time
and at last count there where over 150 of them "buying" and "selling" to each other and the occasional genuine
buyer),
Reporting them is pointless as one will be NARU'd and two more take their place,
Not this time - at least, I don't think so, anyway, as the sellers I believe who were the ones primarily involved are mostly long-established on-site. I can't name them for obvious reasons, but they do have several stores - 2-3 on each eBay site, ranging from a few thousand feedback for the newer ones, to nearly 200k for the older ones. They all sell (mostly) the same fashion jewellery and findings at slightly different price points, plus the odd accessory, tools, sometimes fashion. They also have a variety of independent websites under the same famiy but catering for different needs (retail / wholesale).
They're generally not the type of sellers to mislead or deceive about jewellery, perhaps surprisingly - they don't even use that sterling silver plated trick like a lot do (as far as I can tell, anyway - most of their older stores have 20-30 thousand items listed and I haven't looked at them all ). It was quite a while ago that I saw that buyer ID, and while the sellers still list 1c auctions, these days they've mostly switched to auctions with a start price higher than their BIN price, and I rarely bother with the auctions now either way.
It just struck me as very odd bidding behaviour, especially for a new ID, but for all I know there could have been a perfectly legit reason for it - although most of the reasons I came up with (even the non-legit ones) seemed a tad unlikely, if not plain silly.
on 01-11-2013 07:15 PM